Confusion regarding SWEET landform concepts #234
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I'm not sure what complete looks like but I agree with you on confusing. For example the only semi-useful logical axiom associated with
No idea...
In fairness very basic landform concepts do exist. Maybe they are not the ones you expect though @Garybc ? |
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Lewis,
why don't we see very basic landform concepts
In fairness very basic landform concepts do exist. Maybe they are not the
ones you expect though
Yes, they are elsewhere is SWEET, but many think them basic landforms so
why do we see the list I presented but not these. "What is the organizing
principle?" is the question.
Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D.
Consultant
Potomac, MD
240-426-0770
The standard libertarian story is that people have the right to do what
they want as long as they don’t hurt anyone else. Now with a pandemic we
are told that they have a right of choice (say not to wear a mask or meet
as a big group) even if they do hurt other people.
…On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:57 PM Lewis John McGibbney < ***@***.***> wrote:
...are both incomplete and confusing
I'm not sure what *complete* looks like but I agree with you on
*confusing*. For example the only semi-useful logical axiom associated
with soreal:Highland is that it is owl:disjointWith soreal:Lowland. I am
no landform expert.... but I know more work needs to be done here.
what is the source for these
No idea...
why don't we see very basic landform concepts
In fairness very basic landform concepts do exist. Maybe they are not the
ones you expect though @Garybc <https://github.com/Garybc> ?
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I don't know but based on what is in the
Again, I don't know but my guess is because that wasn't something that was terribly important at the time w.r.t. tagging satellite imagery. Landforms can be quite important to soil scientists/pedologists. This may be something to bring up at the next soil ontology meeting, or add it to @ktoddbrown's notes. |
Indeed. Which is why http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform are from chapter 5 Landform, by J.G. Speight, in Australian soil and land survey field handbook (3rd edn). |
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Hey -- I have just been lurking here -- but I have some thoughts on US soil science perspective and some involvement with soil ontology efforts. @brandonnodnarb @ktoddbrown @dylanbeaudette The US National Soil Survey Handbook is our standard, Part 629 is Soil Survey Field Procedures Glossary Of Landform and Geologic Terms Part A and Part B In US national cooperative soil survey, we have a hierarchical system for the description of "landform" -- Landscape, Landform, Microfeature, and Anthropogenic Feature. In our system, having landform as a superclass of landscape only makes sense in the most general sense that they are both Land, e.g. http://sweetontology.net/realmLandform/Landscape. I would consider Landscape to be necessarily larger areas comprised of distinctly defined landforms -- such as those described by @Garybc. In my mind, both of are probably subclass of LandRegion but refer to different levels of detail or map scale. It would be great to map our definitions, which range from broad to very specific, on to something more generally applicable outside of our soil surveys like SWEET. We do soil surveys all over the world, so we have probably as close to a "complete" system as anyone -- though not perfectly machine-readable at this moment. I'd be interested in seeing where we could potentially link up on this. I have general scheme for doing the parsing of our US handbook into JSON, see https://github.com/ncss-tech/SoilKnowledgeBase. We have a letter code system for the structure and references of the various definitions-- which might help with locking down an "authoritative" reference or "organizing principle"? |
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@brownag Good stuff. As I have also been trying to point out, there are solid resources already available, with some already available as Linked Data. SWEET should consider starting off by encoding these, if only to provide a traceable baseline for future revisions. |
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Simon,
Thanks as always to a pointer to relevant work. The link you sent timed
out for me (probably poor cycles and
wifi on my side) but I did do a search on the repository site with
"landorm" and it found this (below). Is this what you were referring to as
" solid resources already available"?
NameNotationDescriptionTypesStatus
coastal landforms
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/csiro/test_keyword_sample/_unique_id_coastal_landforms>
unique_id_coastal_landforms Coastal processes refers to the action of
natural forces (e.g. eros... Concept
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept> submitted
Dimensions of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimensions>
element-dimensions An occurrence of a landform element extends as far as
its attribute... Collection <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection>
experimental
Slope of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_slope> slope Always
observe and record the slope as precisely as the chosen surv... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> experimental
Location within the landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_location-within-the-landform-element>
location-within-the-landform-element A site chosen to represent a landform
element will often be placed ... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> experimental
Landform genesis
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-genesis>
landform-genesis The two following sections on geomorphological modes and
agents ref... Collection <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection>
experimental
Description of landform pattern
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-descriptions>
landform-pattern-descriptions The significant kinds of landform pattern in
Australia may be descr... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> submitted
Width of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-width>
element-dimension-width horizontal distance between the lateral margins of
the element, mea... Concept
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept> , observable
property <http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty> experimental
Glossary of landform elements
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-element-glossary>
landform-element-glossary The landform element glossary aims to provide an
adequate, concise ... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> submitted
Glossary of landform patterns
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-glossary>
landform-pattern-glossary The definitions in this glossary refer explicitly
to the attributes... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> experimental
Description of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-element-descriptions>
landform-element-descriptions A landform element may be described by the
following attributes, as... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> experimental
Height of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-height>
element-dimension-height difference in elevation between the upper and
lower margins of the ... Concept
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept> , observable property
<http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty> experimental
Length of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_element-dimension-length>
element-dimension-length horizontal distance between the upper and lower
margins of the elem... Concept <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept>
, observable property <http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty>
experimental
Included types of landform pattern for Alluvial plain
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-ALP-included-patterns>
landform-pattern-ALP-included-patterns Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> experimental
Collections of elements found in specific landform patterns
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/sandbox/soil/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-components>
landform-pattern-components Certain kinds of landform element are typical
of a given landform p... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> experimental
Glossary of landform elements
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_landform-element-glossary>
landform-element-glossary The landform element glossary aims to provide an
adequate, concise ... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> stable
Dimensions of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimensions>
element-dimensions An occurrence of a landform element extends as far as
its attribute... Collection <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection>
stable
Description of landform pattern
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_landform-pattern-descriptions>
landform-pattern-descriptions The significant kinds of landform pattern in
Australia may be descr... Collection
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Collection> stable
Width of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-width>
element-dimension-width horizontal distance between the lateral margins of
the element, mea... Concept
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept> , observable
property <http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty> stable
Height of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-height>
element-dimension-height difference in elevation between the upper and
lower margins of the ... Concept
<http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept> , observable property
<http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty> stable
Length of landform element
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform/_element-dimension-length>
element-dimension-length horizontal distance between the upper and lower
margins of the elem... Concept <http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core#Concept>
, observable property <http://www.w3.org/ns/sosa/ObservableProperty> stable
Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D.
Consultant
Potomac, MD
240-426-0770
…On Sun, Jan 17, 2021 at 8:24 PM Simon Cox ***@***.***> wrote:
@brownag <https://github.com/brownag> Good stuff. As I have also been
trying to point out, there are solid resources already available, with some already
available as Linked Data
<http://registry.it.csiro.au/def/soil/au/asls/landform>. SWEET should
consider starting off by encoding these, if only to provide a traceable
baseline for future revisions.
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@Garybc the arrangement in that Australian resource strictly matches the arrangement in the printed book that is the original source. So there are groupings, but it was not designed as a class hierarchy in the RDFS or OWL sense. Note that there are several different kinds of things in this set. In particular note the distinction between landform-elements and -patterns (the latter are composed of the former). |
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Thank you for the clarification. I was aware of your use of SKOS and could
see the pattern formation from elements. I agree that we are ready for the
next step. A harmonization step.
Gary Berg-Cross Ph.D.
Consultant
Potomac, MD
240-426-0770
…On Mon, Jan 18, 2021 at 2:37 PM Simon Cox ***@***.***> wrote:
@Garybc <https://github.com/Garybc> the arrangement in that Australian
resource strictly matches the arrangement in the printed book that is the
original source. So there are groupings, but it was not designed as a class
hierarchy in the RDFS or OWL sense.
Moving to the latter would be a logical next-step in converting this to a
genuinely semantic resource.
(It is formalized as SKOS Concepts and Collections, so the axiomatization
is weak. Nevertheless, the organization is logical - recommend you try
unfolding the lists in the tree view.)
Note that there are several different kinds of things in this set. In
particular note the distinction between landform-elements and -patterns
(the latter are composed of the former).
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lewismc
added
the
esipwinter2021
lewismc
changed the title
The classes listed under Landform on the version of SWEET https://sweetontology.net/realmLandform are both incomplete and confusing. I accessed the following which includes very general concepts like Region but hyper specific ones like "central creek crater " what is the source for these and why don't we see very basic landform concepts like INDEPENDENT/WHOLE LANDFORM OBJECTs of ): mountain, hill, plateau, mesa, channel, valley, dune, ridge, spur, cliff, bluff, terrace, bench, escarpment, bench, depression, basin, crater, mine, gap, pass. In SWEET under landform we have in contrast: "Cavity Region central creek crater complex crater continent crater debris basin deflation zone dryland field highland impact basin impact crater lamination land land cover land region land surface landform landscape lowland mare pedestal crater pit crater plain prairie rocky pit floor crater shatter cone spall surface region."
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