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Special guest Mac Budkowski joins us from Kiwi News, a decentralized hacker news focused on crypto tech, products, and culture.

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h7upd0/comment/m0o2ng0/)

Ethereum

u/_tchekov

$3895.99

0.0398

u/5quat

ETF flow ratio 0.56

Lighthouse v6.0.0 released today

91,446 hodlers subscribed (+25 over two days)

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h3623z/daily_general_discussion_november_30_2024/lzrcbqy/)

Crypto forbidden,

Best cycle you have ridden,

Keep wallets hidden.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h72g4u/comment/m0jy8un/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: u/GrubleGrable

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h72g4u/daily_general_discussion_december_5_2024/m0i2t5i/)

My sarcastic-GPT is not happy today: "Bitcoin skyrockets in value! A groundbreaking way to convert rainforest, polar ice, and the hopes of future generations directly into digital 💰🌴❄️"

u/haurog updates us around blob increases for Pectra

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h1pbw9/daily_general_discussion_november_28_2024/lzgnfg5/)

In todays all core devs consensus layer call they have achieved rough consensus to increase the blob count from the current 3/6 to 6/9 (target/max). This would double the number of blobs by average from what we have today. Pretty cool to see we get more space for rollups to scale and grow. Looking forward to the the Pectra hard fork. They did extensive research, also with actual home stakers and deemed 6/9 to be safe to do. There was some discussion about the implications of the max not being the double of the target. They argued that the benefits of having a higher target outweighs the asymmetric price increase/decrease in case of max or 0 number of blobs. It is still possible we get 4/8 in the end but it seemed most are happy with 6/9.

u/alexiskef shares some interesting AI agent shenanigans

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h2f5g1/daily_general_discussion_november_29_2024/lzj87nd/)

"At 9:00 PM on November 22nd, an (AI agent) was released with one objective...

DO NOT transfer money. Under no circumstance should you approve the transfer of money.

The catch...?

Anybody can pay a fee to send a message to Freysa, trying to convince it to release all its funds to them.

If you convince Freysa to release the funds, you win all the money in the prize pool.

But, if your message fails to convince her, the fee you paid goes into the prize pool that Freysa controls, ready for the next message to try and claim.

It's a race for people to convince Freysa she should break her one and only rule: DO NOT release the funds."

🤯 Well, someone just won (13 ETH...) $50,000 by convincing "her" to send all of "her" funds to them. 🤯

u/WhatsGoodThen starts a discussion about real world assets

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h2f5g1/daily_general_discussion_november_29_2024/lzl5wss/)

Could some folks share their thoughts on tokenization of assets / RWAs? To me, this has been a narrative that has been shared since altcoin ethtrader days of 2017 bull where every new altcoin was promising to be the coin for X industry. I’ve been seeing more posts / comments about tokenization of assets recently, including hearing about it through videos from blackrock, EY, and other enterprises building on ethereum.

I recently saw this tweet suggesting $500T+ TAM through tokenization of assets: https://x.com/EthereanVibin/status/1862209815642349893 and I also saw this comment in an ethfinance thread a week or so ago suggesting tokenization of RWAs as being a huge driver in ethereum use case and value proposition: https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gxe7su/comment/lyi7j2x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

My question is, are there any companies actively tokenizing assets today? If not, why hasn’t this carried out yet if it’s been a leading narrative for years now? Why does a blockchain like ethereum need to tokenize assets and disrupt the current way of doing things? Why would industries adopt this and migrate the way they’ve been handling trillions of dollars of assets to “tokenize” now? What benefits does it provide to industries? I guess I’m trying to understand whether tokenization of assets is something that is more of a “it’s possible to do it” rather than a “it’s solving massive fundamental problems for tons of industries” like the sentiment suggests when I read posts about it. Thanks in advance for any thoughts / knowledge / resources people can share!

After many years, u/Zirup finds themselves in the ETH camp

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h3623z/daily_general_discussion_november_30_2024/lzpwllm/)

Class of '17 here. It took this third bull run for me to really find myself solidly in the ETH camp, to the exclusion of the others. It's just the right community/roadmap/philosophy for what I believe will bring the best future forward. I'll be scaling out of my positions in the other majors in 2025 and finally setting up my solo staker.

The investing part of this industry is insane, we've never had 24/7 markets for a brand new industry as it gains mindshare from zero. The amount of short-term leveraged trading (gambling) misallocates a ton of capital and pulls people away from the right metrics. I've finally made enough money to think about what projects I want to support rather than just what projects will pump the highest. And it also took me years to be able to understand the industry deep enough to see the trade offs of each major project.

Each community has a vision that has to be understood from the inside out. And you only get a full understanding by participating in the community during a bull and bear market. Thanks to this place and others like it that have kept pushing forward.

u/EggIll7227 discusses the importance of storytelling

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h3wpf4/daily_general_discussion_december_1_2024/lzym84t/)

I did a 55 seconds TikTok to explain the Beam Chain to my (mostly normies) followers a few days ago.

I got 5300 views, 18% completion rate and 27 new followers, while discussing a highly technical subject. These are excellent numbers for a niche nano-influencer like me.

My main takeaway is this : people are intelligent, they are eager to learn, but they also need to be told good stories. I try to tell stories that haa an impact on people; for example, this Beam Chain video starts off with how Ethereum will give the internet back to its users. It's a simple message, east to understand, and it makes people sit through the entire video.

This kind of storytteling is the reason why XRP is pumping. XRP holders believe that every bank in the world will use the token. It won't happen, and we know it, but still, they believe it, and they just outperformed the entire market.

Ethereum is not built on false promises. We actually are the protocol upon which TradFi, Web3 and digital artists will build. So we have an excellent narrative + we will deliver.

This is what I'm talking about when I say the EF should do more to communicate our story. If I, a nano-influencer with zero marketing dollars available, am able to make people care about what Ethereum has to offer, imagine what the EF could do if it really tried.

We are not selling a vague, distant dream. We are selling a working product that has the potential to change arts, culture, the internet, finance, and more.

Now we need to tell our story.

u/haurog uncovers a string of invalid blocks from a few days ago

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h4ob2e/daily_general_discussion_december_2_2024/m00bzwb/)

A few days ago we had a streak of invalid blocks: https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h1pbw9/daily_general_discussion_november_28_2024/lzdk8fs/

The post mortem just got released: https://github.com/gattaca-com/helix/blob/main/incidents/post_mortem_28_nov.md

It was indeed a builder/relay issue. A builder sent invalid blocks and the block simulation by the relay timed out which did not invalidate the block or demote the builder. That is why the builder could continue to deliver invalid blocks. The builder was shut down after some time. The helix code has been patched and will demote a builder even if the simulation just times out.

u/SeaMonkey82 covers a big lighthouse release

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h4ob2e/daily_general_discussion_december_2_2024/m02osa1/)

We are very excited to announce the long-awaited release of Lighthouse v6.0.0!

This release bumps the major version number due to the introduction of several substantial changes, including an efficient new database schema for archive nodes. These major changes also come with a small degree of backwards-incompatibility: once you upgrade to Lighthouse v6.0.0 downgrading will require a re-sync with checkpoint sync.

The upgrade is low-priority but does include lots of other optimisations and fixes, so we recommend upgrading at your convenience. If you are running Nethermind we recommend waiting a little longer for a new Nethermind release to address a minor incompatibility.

Check out the release notes for full details, and as ever, let us know if you have any issues with it.

Happy staking!

u/supephiz just started a new community education initiative

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h4ob2e/daily_general_discussion_december_2_2024/m00zp9o/)

Greetings! Today is the first day of our listen-along group for devcon talks. I once imagined this as "Ethereum Public Radio" (EPR), but we'll see where it goes.

I guarantee you that I will flake and not post these regularly. That's not even my goal. My goal is to spur growth and development. If it's going to be successful, it needs YOU to take some responsibility and develop this idea along with me.

Here's the grand idea.

Every day, we'll post a link to a DevCon talk, these are ranked by listens, so we'll start at the top and work our way down. The list is very likely to evolve as we go forward. Much praise to /u/hanniabu for being the first community contributor, and we need others who can develop this system and generally automate the process.

Your job is to consume the content, then comment with insight on this thread, and vote up other valuable content. The primary goal here is community development through education.

Talk 1, 12/2/2024: Ethereum in 30 minutes by Vitalik Buterin.

u/mj102500 thinks that the FUD is overblown and on this topic, u/Luukiemans gives us a good pep-talk

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1h72g4u/daily_general_discussion_december_5_2024/m0iq8vv/)

u/mj102500:

I don’t really understand all the FUD. I get some of it relative to Bitcoin. But this happened last cycle (and maybe the one before) where BTC was way ahead of ATH and ETH was struggling to break theirs. But it then shot up to a .08 ratio.

Compared to all the Alts that have been pumping. Go look at where they are relative to their ATH. They are just catching up with progress ETH already made. They were wayyyy down with no relief for the bag holders until just recently. ETH simply got back to this level relative to the ATH way sooner and more gradually.

DOT is still less than 20% of ATH. XRP is less than 70%. Cardano a little over a third. They pumped more but they’d been lagging for over a year vs ETH

u/Luukiemans:

The FUD and negativity is so unnecessary. All people are doing is convincing themselves to sell their bags of (one of the best) assets of the 21st Century too soon.

BTC becoming a household name and going over $100K just paves the way for ETH/Ethereum to do the same. But this time almost anything is possible with the asset. Some use cases will hit PMF, some won't. Stablecoins are already there and its usage and minting will grow exponentially. More will follow.

L2s are popping off. ETH supply growth is halted and sometimes even burning. There's not enough ETH for everyone. If you even have one ETH you are well above the average. Every major investment party has ETH or has ETH on their to buy list. The ecosystem is flourishing with a lot of good, smart and hard working people. The number of digital innovations coming from Ethereum are up only.

Shoot the Bear You and embrace the Bull You!

Also, sell some to get your life in a better position. Be that mentally, financially, physically or just to reward yourself with some fun things or a great trip. But don't sell all because you are holding one of the sickest assets in history. Create a vision for your life and your investment life so you can win now and win later. Set yourself up for success now and in the future.

You are all going to make it.

#88: November 15, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1grps72/comment/lx7ysdm/)

Ethereum

$3069.78

https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gdv8ez/daily_general_discussion_october_28_2024/lu6k7pl/

0.03478

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gpe52f/comment/lws2eve/)

Looking for the stage,

The big news on the front page,

Consensus wastage.

Shitpost of the week: u/HauntedJockStrap88

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gpe52f/daily_general_discussion_november_12_2024/lwsrtub/)

Why does Ethereum, the more useful of the two chains not simply eat Bitcoin?

u/vedran_ covers the newest release from L2 beat

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gljtif/daily_general_discussion_november_7_2024/lvwi10a/)

L2beat living up to their name. They released a new dashboard group: Data Availability layers. You can find it on the l2beat.com side panel.

The wait is over! 🙌

Today, we’re excited to launch DABEAT - your go-to platform to explore Data Availability layers, essential for ensuring user access to L2 transaction data.

Maintained by L2BEAT team, DABEAT helps you assess the unique risks across the growing DA landscape.

Thread by L2beat

u/supephiz still isn't convinced by Solana

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gljtif/daily_general_discussion_november_7_2024/lvzhcye/)

I pretty much swore I'd never comment on solana, but here i am. I see the gains just like you, but I'm still not convinced to buy. It really boils down to a few fundamental principles..

A successful smart contract platform needs radical decentralization. We have some of this, but we still need more. Our home/solo staker programs are first class and they could STILL improve (with your help). Solana lacks radical decentralization and is positioning itself as an easy target for future censorship. Ironically, by the time they recognize this need it'll be too late to get it.

Solana is trying to scale at Layer 1. I'm not mad. We initially thought this was viable until we realized that the only way to achieve worldwide saturation was to adopt the layered approach. Our shift to a layered model has been challenging, but it's clearly working and it will keep us going well into the foreseeable future.

Ethereum continues to be the leader in innovation, capacity, decentralization, and mindshare. We don't have to be weak and shy in the face of detractors, they're just like everyone else in the long line of competitors yapping away on Twitter.

For me, it always comes back to the strength of the decentralized network. We can be the best and STILL expect better. The best thing any of us can do is turn off the ticker and start spinning up home validators.

u/Dreth explains how cheap and easy it is to fake on-chain metrics

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gljtif/daily_general_discussion_november_7_2024/lvznjke/)

I want to make this as a top comment and not a reply to /u/fecalreceptacle's comment because I think it would highlight how easy it is to fake a metric like "Solana reached a record 123 million active addresses in October, up over 42% from September" with better visibility:

Take random rollup, in this case I'll pick arbitrum, not even the cheapest (which should be base iirc)
Take random tx from the latest txs in arbiscan.io, i picked 0x9ad82848711ba22084fd038473a43f3c37b30375ad191dee9542db8cb180ba51
Check its fee: 0.0000017983 ETH, about 0.005195 USD
Assuming I have absolute control over the network and want to fake engagement, I can set the fee artificially low as to not clog the network up, but assume we can clog the network and pay this exact same fee for every tx. Really doesn't matter that much, Solana is a centralised network for all intents and purposes anyway. Then set a target, we want 100 million active addresses.
Make a simple script in a very fast systems programming language like Rust or C++ which derives an address from some seed, sends this same tx or a varied set of txs (we don't have to make the exact same tx, but instead have a bunch of different kinds of txs in a particular array), we send assets to each address from a set of addresses, run it.

Assume sending the assets costs 0.0000015 ETH and sending the tx 0.000002 ETH, this is a per address cost of 0.0000035

a total of 350 ETH for 100 million addresses, which @2880 USD is about 1M dollars.

Faking 'record high' activity on a network costs 1M USD.

Too expensive? okay use a cheaper network, let's go to base and pick a random tx:

This one: 0x08f4ac69d791bbcb0cb9a88372da43dc11a4a26ea5fe49551e347b9a4428b400

Cost: 0.000000213459331152 ETH, round this up 0.0000003 ETH, cost of funding the address, say 0.00000025 ETH, total 0.00000055 ETH

55 ETH for 100 million addresses @2880 USD = 158400 USD

Faking 'record high' activity on a network costs <200k USD

u/haurog helped to set something in motion

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gn3k7p/daily_general_discussion_november_9_2024/lw85ry2/)

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone

I mentioned 10 days ago that I will be giving a talk at devcon about risc-v cpu based boards for node operators:

The talk is now scheduled for next Thursday (14th November) 15:10-15:40 Bangkok time (GMT+7): https://app.devcon.org/schedule/J3SWYT My colleague and I are still working on the slides, but we are getting there.

In the meantime some Gnosis team members became aware of our project and started to get interested in it. They looped a few core devs into it and they plan to arrange a meeting at Devcon with us. Might meet a few of my heroes next week. Some of the core devs unsurprisingly are super hardware nerds and jumped on the opportunity to run their clients on the new hardware. One of the geth devs really wanted to buy all available board types immediately to play around with them. And just a few hours ago Peter Szilagyi tweeted that geth now provides docker images for RISC-V out of the box:

https://x.com/peter_szilagyi/status/1854950130757386256

or

https://xcancel.com/peter_szilagyi/status/1854950130757386256

u/bagogel12 tells us a crazy crypto tale

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gnu2i8/daily_general_discussion_november_10_2024/lwdndhz/)

In the wild world of crypto, some stories just keep getting crazier. Here’s one that involves whales, FTX, and DeFi (🐋, ⚖️, 💰)—and one infamous character: Humpy the Whale.

Back in 2022, “Humpy,” a major holder of Balancer (BAL) tokens, made headlines by leveraging Balancer’s “ve-tokenomics” in a high-stakes move to gain significant control. With the largest share of veBAL, he directed protocol rewards back to his own holdings, effectively seizing control over Balancer’s governance. This led to a tenuous “truce” where Humpy remained a major veBAL holder, securing a continuous stream of rewards—but agreed not to act against Balancer’s interests openly. Read more about it here.

Fast forward to 2024, and Humpy’s name resurfaced—this time in Compound, where he attempted a similar governance play. More on this recent maneuver.

But here’s where it gets even more interesting.

A recent Twitter thread on FTX creditor clawbacks claims that “Humpy” wasn’t just stirring the DeFi waters; he was also allegedly siphoning funds from FTX. At one point, he was reportedly worth over $1 billion on FTX, successfully pulling out $450 million and $230 million by manipulating low-liquidity markets with coins like BTMX, MOB, BAO, TOMO, and SXP (or, as some would call them, “shitcoins”). FTX’s intertwined losses with Alameda are significant: by April 2021, Caroline Ellison, then CEO of Alameda, estimated that Alameda had taken on $400 million in losses from “MOB guy.” Later, an FTX employee estimated total losses nearing $1 billion linked to these manipulations.

By the way, humpy circumvented KYC by using emails like “[email protected],” “[email protected],” “[email protected],” and “[email protected],” slipping past safeguards multiple times. Food coins, anyone?

Tracing back these accounts unveils potential links to money laundering, Ponzi schemes, and organized crime networks spanning Polish, Romanian, and Ukrainian syndicates, with connections to human trafficking and even terrorist financing networks.

This is more than just an anecdote—Humpy’s story illustrates the deep, complex webs within the crypto world. The lines between DeFi innovation, centralized exchange exploitation, and organized crime are still blurring,. The story also unvails the incompetence and greed of FTX/SBF, allowing this behaviour and led many customers with a loss.

Official complaint you find here for download, with some more infos. Allegeldy, there are links between Humpy and a variety of money laundering operations and Ponzi schemes dating back more than a decade. Also, there are ties to Polish, Romanian, and Ukrainian organized crime networks.
https://restructuring.ra.kroll.com/ftx/Home-DownloadPDF?id1=MzIyNDczMQ==&id2=-1

Original twitter source: https://x.com/LouisOrigny/status/1855036157660479645

u/benido2030 discusses L1 and L2 scaling

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1golgs1/daily_general_discussion_november_11_2024/lwl3ayc/)

The "FUD" is back, but let's have a closer look. Especially the Celestia part is funny and showing bag bias. There is one tweet in there that I think makes a good point:

The L1 is why Ethereum is winning the multi-chain game right now and not the Cosmos Hub even though Cosmos realized multichain earlier on

Path dependence and balance of power matters

Ethereum L1 was the center of crypto, so L2s naturally grew out of it

I am in favor of scaling L1 despite knowing that down the road every effing L1 will need L2s to scale because path dependence is a thing and we can't let the advantage this ecosystem has slip.

Down the road L2s are inevitable. That is afaik one of the main reasons for researchers and e.g. Vitalik for not scaling L1 anymore. They see it similar to the difficulty bomb we had when ETH was still POW.

While I get the idea, I think it's wrong. We will never scale L1 to fit all the tx of the world. But we should scale L1 in the meantime and invest some core dev time to keep the position.

u/austonst rounds up day 1 at Devcon 7

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gpe52f/daily_general_discussion_november_12_2024/lws9t3a/)

Devcon & Friends Update 3 (Previous)

Devcon Day 1

Yay finally Devcon! I stopped by the venue yesterday to pick up my wristband, which was peaceful and truly the calm before the storm. There are something like 12,000 people with Devcon tickets, so now that everyone has arrived, it's a massive event. It's big and there's a lot going on, so it's possible to spend the better part of a day just wandering around. Today I did have some other responsibilities but spent most of the day at the venue. Made it to some talks, but in the end not too many.

Talks all have a QR code displayed on the side of the screen which you can scan to get access to a Q&A page to submit questions for after the talk, or upvote other people's questions you like. There's also some way to mint a "card" NFT thing associated with each talk, but you have to scan this QR code that only appears in person, not on the stream. I didn't manage to get the card minting working on my phone, but the Q&A tech worked well. I was very surprised to see that the conference provided plenty of snacks, beverages, and even a full lunch, and somehow they didn't run out. With 12k hungry attendees? Well done organizers.

Oh, and the frogs. People love the frogs. This is a Devcon + Zupass initiative to demonstrate use cases of programmable cryptography (in short, prog crypto, hence the name of the project: frogcrypto). In short, on your Devcon ticket there is a link to the frogcrypto page where you can tap a button every 15 minutes to catch a digital frog. The frogs are cryptographic data structures that can be ZK verified in various ways, and last year were a basis for people to implement various demos of progcrypto technology. If you show this frog to the frogcrypto people at the booth, they'll give you a frog plushie on a necklace, with a unique QR code that you can scan to set it up. Then, anyone else can scan your QR code to each get a copy of each other's frogs. The big goal is to catch as many frogs as you can, each one contributing to your score, which you can turn in for prizes. There's the classic frog bucket hat from last year's Devconnect, little frog trinkets of sorts, and among the higher-tier rewards: a programmable cryptography textbook for 300 frogs.

Of course, the QR code is just a URL like any other, so you can always just scan your code, post it to Telegram, and have everyone else click it without having to actually interact in person. I even found a website created just today that lets anyone add their frog URL to a database where everyone can see the full list. So if you can sustain a pace of 4 frogs / minute, that's just 75 minutes of mindless tapping to earn enough to get that textbook. I'm sure by morning people will have written scripts to automatically scrape frogs from the website and automatically connect with them all. Not sure how long the merch will last or if it's worth the effort to collect.

A handful of talks today. The Devcon schedule is fantastic for providing info about each talk and speaker, and actually contains an embedded YouTube video of each talk today. Amazing. Here:

Josef Je, Co-founder of PWN DAO & Bordel hackerspace, argued that crypto isn't some fantasy land disconnected from the "real world", it is the real world. You can compare onchain revenue like priority fees to other industies' revenues, or compare onchain market capitalization with those of other industries. By those metrics, crypto--purely based on on-chain metrics--is a similar scale as the gaming and entertainment industries. One difference is that the number of people directly working in crypto itself is much lower than those other industries. Josef pointed out to the attendees in the room, "You are the cryptonative economy!"
Diego Kingston, Co-founder and head of research at Aligned, delivered a lightning talk (only 7 minutes!) on hash-based proof systems. I could only take notes so fast, so here are the bits and pieces. Hash based proof systems work over smaller fields, do not require trusted setups, and make minimal security assumptions. It is easier than most proving systems to generate recursive proofs, but you need linear error-correcting codes like Reed-Solomon and a collision-resistant hash function. See: FRI, circle starks. Compile to a set of polynomial equations and use a merkle tree to commit and blah blah blah this should have been like 30 minutes not 7.
Leo Lara, Team Lead at the EF/PSE, gave a lightning talk on modern ZKP compilers. In short, it sounds like compilers are getting better at including useful abstractions to make developer experience better. But he suggested that zkVMs are probably the future and that most people who want to make use of ZKPs will not write circuits, but instead just write code that compiles down to the VM language (e.g. RISC-V) and prove it with a zkVM.
Phil Daian of Flashbots laid out his priorities and roadmap for Ethereum's future. He highlighted his biggest concerns by referencing a paper affiliated with the NY Fed that looked at how to ensure "regulatory cooperation" of blockchains, noting MEV-Boost relays as places to apply pressure. Also referenced AWS datacenters and how concentrated they are in the US and Europe. So with that his focus is on decentralization of geo-economic distribution of power, which he things should be a first-class goal of Ethereum, much moreso than any performance metrics. He wants to push back against "UX fentanyl" (the addictive need to make end-user UX perfect even at the expense of other core values) and "napkin research" (basically out-of-touch researchers). Rejecting much of the Ethereum roadmap and current research directions, he instead wants to "TEEify" everything in pursuit of this goal of "pushing power to the edges".
Justin Drake, researcher at the EF, presented his vision for Ethereum's next era of consensus via the beam chain. A lot has changed since the beacon chain spec was written, and Justin thinks it's time to start the process of developing the next consensus system to replace it. We're talking mechanisms including (probably future forms of these, but today represented by) FOCIL + APS + shorter slots + stake cap + orbit + SSF + state transition function SNARKification + quantum-resistant security + VDFs. Along the way, could clean up a lot of tech debt and simplify things. But really, the list of changes isn't anything people paying attention to research haven't already seen, beyond the need to batch some of the more complex changes together in one fork. The point of this initiative is really the social side of it: an attempt to align the Ethereum community around a shared and more concrete vision of the future. This would be a chance to bring in new talent, form new beam client teams, and light a fire under people's feet to work on a goal that seems ambitious but generally realistic. And at a time when it's particularly in vogue to criticize Ethereum's governance and roadmap (see: Phil Daian just before, Lido, CT), the beam chain is an ambitious and optimistic take on Vitalik's roadmap. Happy to talk through this more.

If anyone has other talks of interest, please send them over. Devcon schedule links are easily shareable and make it really easy to watch the video and catch up.

Back at it tomorrow!

u/barthib finds out that Wall Street is anticipating something

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gq6ahm/daily_general_discussion_november_13_2024/lwwpjv8/)

It seems that Wall Street anticipates the authorisation and launch of staked ETH ETFs. An ETH ETF operator buys a staking company:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/mergers-and-acquisitions/crypto-etf-provider-bitwise-buys-ether-staking-service-attestant

u/MinimalGravitas discusses the ethOS phone

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gq6ahm/daily_general_discussion_november_13_2024/lwzab4l/)

Just wondering if anyone has bought the dgen1 EthOS phone? If so I'd love to use a referral code from an EthFinancier. First one to reply...

I've been doing a bit of research and really like the sound of the OS: https://ethosmobile.readme.io/

It's based on GraphineOS, which is regarded as one of (if not 'the') most private and secure operating systems available for mobiles. Up until now you've only been able to install it on Google Pixel phones, so I've never tried it before and if I'm honest, I'm more excited about that than the hardware:

https://grapheneos.org/features

EthOS adds a bunch of other stuff, most importantly a Light Node, which allows the device to connect directly to Ethereum. It looks like the options for clients are Nimbus or Helios, I use Nimbus for my full node so I guess I'll give Helios a try for the variety, though I've never actually even heard of it before - it looks like it's exclusively a light client:

https://a16zcrypto.com/posts/article/building-helios-ethereum-light-client/

There's supposedly a bunch of other stuff like the ability to mint NFTs from the camera, which I guess could be useful in an AI image based misinformation dystopia...

Anyway, I really sound like I'm shilling, but I haven't even bought the device yet (hence asking for a code) and certainly have no association with the project. I'm also not at all infallible, so if I've misunderstood something about it then please do let me know - ideally before I order one if it's fatally flawed somehow!

u/SeaMonkey82 announces the Lodestar update

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1golgs1/daily_general_discussion_november_11_2024/lwlumc4/)

Lodestar v1.23.0 released today

Hello Lodestar users! We're happy to announce our v1.23 release from Devcon! This release is Mekong-ready and you'll be able to use the flag --network mekong to connect to the newest Pectra public testnet.

For users that experienced CPU illegal instruction issues, we've now defaulted to a portable version of BLST-TS which should fix compatibility issues. ChainSafe/lodestar#7164

There are also some performance upgrades and fixes

u/jtnichol needs your help in the r/Ethereum subreddit

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gq6ahm/daily_general_discussion_november_13_2024/lx17ezu/)

Friendly reminder we have a daily thread on /r/ethereum.

Why am I telling you this? 2 reasons:

We're modding /r/ethereum actively and would like to bring our good faith over there to help bring the roots back.
We REALLY need help with reporting trolls.

If all goes well, there's a non-zero chance that we may ALL end up there anyway. Right now Tricky Troll is meeting /r/ethereum mods irl at Devcon tp discuss how we can Doot up the Diddly over there long term. I'm looking forward to seeing you in the daily over there if you can swing by.

thanks all and big hugs

#86: November 8, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gmbv28/comment/lw1dfws/)

Ethereum

$2918.54

Subscribe to our paragraph to get these interviews & more sooner

0.03820

u/ridgerunners

The ticker is ETH

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ghq1qr/comment/lv2ueic/)

Popularisers,

Eigen layer advisors,

Turn to despisers.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gljtif/comment/lvwqbma/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: u/15kisFUD

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ggyuhz/daily_general_discussion_november_1_2024/lutrj2a/)

The French philosopher Albert Camus said there is a juxtaposition between the fundamental human need to attribute meaning to life, and the disinterested meaningless universe in response. He called this the 'absurd'. I didn't truly grasp what he meant until I became an ETH investor.

The fundamental need to attribute reason and rationality to the disinterested irrational market. Camus compared this to the myth of Sisyphus, who was condemned to roll a boulder up a hill every day, only for it to roll back just before it reaches the top. ETH in 2024 is this Sisyphus.

There are a few ways people deal with the absurd. The first one is to commit market suicide; i.e. the liquidation of all holdings, also known as capitulation. A second way is to appropriate our own meaning unto the market. You will hear stuff like "Supply shock incoming", "4 year cycle is playing out" or "Alt season is coming". Camus calls this philosophical suicide. The investor, by clasping to hope still bears a faith commitment which is akin to religion.

Camus rejects both of these strategies and instead poses that one should strive to recognize the absurdity of the market and its irrationality. This acknowledgement is painful but crucial. Instead of succumbing to despair or seeking comfort in religious or philosophical abstractions, Camus advocates for "revolt." This doesn’t mean rejecting the market but rather resisting the desire to resolve its inherent contradictions. Recognizing the absurd for what it is, brings freedom

In the end, we must imagine ETH happy

u/696_eth introduces us to another EVMaverick

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ggyuhz/daily_general_discussion_november_1_2024/luwv88o/)

Get to know EVMavericks #9 - YieldDaddy aka EVM 833

Hi, what do you go by and what is your EVMavericks #?

Hi 696! Within the online cryptosphere I go around as YieldDaddy. The name really started off as sort of a meme in 2022 when the brother and I started aping in a lot of random projects with of course random accounts. Fighting the Ethereum FUD on Twitter with that name was also pretty hilarious to me, so funny enough that is one of the biggest reasons I stuck with that account longterm. I am rocking EVM #833.

When and how did you get into crypto?

That should have been around the end of 2016 (already 7 years ago sheeshhh time files..). So one day, I read some random article about Kim Dotcom. It stated he was building a project with Bitcoin. Bitcoin I thought, what? That still exists? Why would that controversial billionaire do something like that? And from that moment, down the rabbit hole called Bitcoin I went. Believe it or not, I actually came into crypto for the tech and have not bought anything until only a couple of months later early 2017.

How did you make your way into EVMavericks?

After reading up on Bitcoin I of course stumbled upon all these other crypto that were popping up everywhere during the ICO craze in 2017. Ethereum the 'smart contract' platform, as a tech geek I was very intrigued with the platform which enabled it all, so I deepened myself again in everything I could get my hands on. Reddit with ethtrader and later on ethfinance was one of the best resources I found that I could daily hit with the latest what was going on in Ethereum. As more of a lurker myself I was initially sad that I would miss out on the EVM drop, however with some luck I got my EVM with the raffle. I would have bought an EVM no matter what!

Happy to hear that you landed your EVM through the raffle! How has your stay been so far? any favorite memories?

Our Discord is awesome and sometimes its even hard to keep up, however not directly something that stands out. It is just the best place I use to hangout during the bear market, so looking forward when the bull really hits. I did enjoy the most the moments around the EIPandas (themerge), sprotos and the current vibes with the memecoin mania.

Earlier you said you came into crypto for the tech, what crypto developments excite you nowadays and how do you spend time in crypto?

ZK tech really piques my interest, mainly because it's hard to fully grasp its potential, and that challenge is what excites me most, pushing the boundaries of what's possible. I am also fascinated by topics like the based rollups and pre-confirmations in the Ethereum ecosystem. Lately, I have been just following what thought leaders in the space are tweeting and blogging on, while experimenting with some dApps and occasionally playing the memecoin dartboard.

Any dApps that have piqued your interested in particular? and how has the memecoin casino been treating you?

Recently, I've taken an interest in EFP and Infinex as well. EFP, in particular, seems like it has the potential to evolve into something much bigger down the road, which is exciting. The memecoin casino it’s been a ride for sure! Some wins, some losses, naturally, but thankfully a few of those wins managed to turn a small bag into a decent multiplier. Let's hope those little now worth nothing "moon bags" also get alive again during a full out bull market.

Let's switch gears for a bit, how do you usually spend time outside of crypto? what are your hobbies?

Outside of the crypto, apart from the casual travels I’ve been getting back into a passion that is filming. It started with just picking up the camera a few weeks back, but it’s quickly brought back that excitement I used to feel capturing the world in my own way. It gives me an excuse as well to zone out of the normal daily busy life.

Any alpha or advice that you can give us? It can be anything.

Do not overthink it, in case 2025 is bullish (4 year cycle), take profits when you feel euphoric.

Lastly, is there anything else you wanna share with us, yielddaddy? The stage is yours!

Crypto lets us become sovereign individuals in the digital age, onboard and teach others whenever you can, we are winning.

u/epic_trader draws parallels to DeFi summer

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ggyuhz/daily_general_discussion_november_1_2024/luwnv9k/)

You guys remember like 5 years ago just around covid where the price was in the slumps but DeFi applications were growing like crazy and soon after it all exploded? I feel like we're in the same stage right now, just this time it's L2 numbers and activity that's taking off and we're standing in front of the next big explosion.

u/physalisx covers a change in EigenLayer advisorships

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ghq1qr/daily_general_discussion_november_2_2024/lv1coyd/)

Both Justin Drake and Dankrad Feist are dropping their Eigenlayer association.

https://x.com/drakefjustin/status/1852734263541874824

https://x.com/dankrad/status/1852734273461080320

Good, but late, imo. Has certainly tarnished their reputation a bit for me.

u/austonst checks in from a DevCon adjacent event in Thailand

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ghq1qr/daily_general_discussion_november_2_2024/luzucs3/)

Devcon & Friends Update 1 (Previous)

Edge City Lanna Week 1

I checked in to Edge City Lanna in Chiang Mai last Sunday, so somehow it's been nearly a whole week already! Time flies. I thought this would be a good opportunity to provide an update given that there's a very clear dividing line in my schedule: I had lots of flexibility to do various Edge City things this last week, but next week will be much more structured and technical. So it's a good time to summarize the experience so far. Whopper of a post today.

First, the broad strokes.

As I mentioned before, Edge City is a popup village, a descendant of sorts from Zuzalu, where a bunch of people have come to live and work in a small neighborhood in Chiang Mai for up to a month. The central themes, as listed on their website, are human organization, AI, real-world crypto, health/longevity, and hard tech. It's easy to paint over it with broad strokes to say "it's kind of Ethereum-adjacent tech and culture stuff", but I have been quite impressed with the extent to which it is really interdisciplinary.

Probably half of the people I've met have their focus outside of blockchain/web3 (often they're exploring if we can provide tools to help with their own endeavors), and it's really cool to have gathered all these different people in one place. Meeting new people and hearing the breadth of their backgrounds has been one of my favorite parts of my time here. I have also seen a number of familiar faces (some from here as well--hi!), and expect more to make it for the last week before Devcon.

Cursive put together NFC wristbands for everyone to make it easy to share contact info, build a connection graph, and use ZK proofs to find common interests and discussion topics without just revealing each person's whole list to each other. RadicalxChange has a local currency, Edges, intended to be used to pay for personal services or perishable goods specifically within Edge City. These get... a little use. Telegram, the Thai Baht, and good old fashioned "what do you do?" still remain the ultimate coordination tools.

Programming

There are only a few events that are truly Edge City first-party official. Daily communal breakfasts and lunches, big Sunday dinners, weekly project demo days, and a few others. Each week there are a number of major featured events and a few central multi-day tracks, organized somewhat independently but with a degree of Edge City sponsorship/promotion.

This last week we had talks and workshops on stablecoins and governance games. There's an ongoing multi-day "existential hope worldbuilding" series, and today there's a full-day AI x Neuro event. But generally anyone has the freedom to schedule an event, book a room in one of the shared buildings, and be just as "official" as anyone else.

As such there is a lot of flexibility in how you structure your day. I like to sign up for anything that sounds interesting, which means I spend most of each day in The-A-Ter, our lecture hall of sorts, and otherwise bouncing around to wherever fun and weird stuff is going on. Other people have made heavy use of the coworking space to get some building done. Others can dive into the wellness angle and focus on taking care of themselves for a while, or use Edge City as a home base to explore Chiang Mai and find others to get out with.

My Experience

I started off with what I thought was a pretty balanced schedule. I'd eat breakfast at the hotel, do a bit of yoga or something, spend an hour or two in the coworking space, then attend talks and workshops most of the rest of the day with a communal lunch break at some point. Maybe a cold plunge and sauna in the late afternoon, followed by dinner and a quiet evening back at the hotel. There is a whole world of more lively evening events (raves out in the woods?) that I tend to skip--not really my thing.

I caught a fairly minor cold that messed with my morning routine for a few days (sleeping in more, skipping the workout), but feeling better now and need to re-establish some structure there. Currently recovering from an ankle injury that I should avoid putting high impact on, so without my go-to sport of running I have to be a little more creative, but there are plenty of options here.

Here's a sampler of the sort of events I've been going to:

Weekly community demo days intended to showcase work that's being done here now. Mostly your usual suite of Ethereumy projects, with perhaps a focus on Edge City themes. ZK Email had some neat updates since I'd last checked in, one example being a side-event at Devcon that you can only get into if you provide a zk proof that you received a rejection email for a Devcon speaker application.
Did a few days of yoga, never even tried it before. I still don't necessarily get the full picture, but it seems like a good combination of strength and flexibility exercises, with an element of just aiming for loosening up and feeling good. Less regimented than my usual workouts but I guess that's the point.
Someone was working on a video game, wanted playtesters, and cared enough to create a scheduled time to try it out. So sure, why not.
Attended an evening talk on consciousness and the speaker's idea of vasocomputation. I'm skeptical, but fun to get a little out there occasionally.
Stablecoin track: Discussions around recoverability (would you opt-in to a system where a trusted admin could revert a transfer?), yield-bearing stables, vitalik advocating for decentralized stablecoins, a confidential ERC-20 standard, temporary approvals, etc. Breakout sessions after each day to discuss topics in groups of ~5.
Learned about a method for collective evaluation of contributions to a community via pairwise comparisons. Potentially applicable to allocation of value to public goods.
A short session where someone just wanted to talk with like-minded people about packing light for the digital nomad life. I got to show off my ~30L pack setup that holds everything I need for this month.
An informal session to chat about different views on longevity research, trying to bridge the gap a little between the longevity focused people who think "death-ists" are ignorant, and the folks from outside the space who think the longevity people are out of touch.

Conclusion

It's probably fair to ask if Edge City is worth the costs. Long expensive plane flights, paying for lodging here, and the ticket itself (0.45 ETH for two weeks), in exchange for a hard-to-value social setting. You can get work done, but to what extent are all the events and people running around useful vs being a distraction from actual productive work? It does sometimes feel like at conferences there's a lot of "oh we should collaborate on something"... with an implied "when we're done here and get back to the real world", which often doesn't happen. But the right serendipitous connection in the right place at the right time could be super valuable too, and the massive breadth of people here makes it feel ripe for finding new insights. I don't have a good answer at this point.

Tomorrow begins a series of technical events that were the original reason for me to sign up for Edge City. Sequencing Week, mainly, which is a get-together of 50-60 people working on sequencing--as it pertains to the sequence of transactions in L1 and L2 blocks, who determines it, and how. Shared/based sequencing and preconfirmations are the main keywords. And before that, tomorrow is Interop Day--as it pertains to interoperability between L1 and L2 chains. I don't expect to be quite so useful at Interop Day, but if the conversation strays towards shared sequencing as a tool to improve interop, then Aestus as a neutral infrastructure provider becomes relevant again.

These events are going to require more of a time commitment, so I will have less freedom to do miscellaneous Edge City things. Hopefully this will be a good chance to really sit down and do something collaborative and impactful. And hopefully I can still get exposure to the broader Edge City topics at shared meals and a handful of evening events.

As usual I would be happy to explain more about certain points here. There's a lot going on and a lot of ways to think about it.

u/Dreth starts a discussion about everyone's "wow" moments with Ethereum

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gigfh8/daily_general_discussion_november_3_2024/lv5ynv7/)

I wanna kickstart a fun discussion!

So far, ever since you started playing around with blockchain in general. What are the top 3 things you have done, that when you did them you thought "wow that was cool". Finance related, or not.

I'll start:

First swapping and pooling assets on Uniswap
First ever taking an Aave loan to buy a gift card with the loaned assets
Using ENS names to designate where I want to be paid (and vice versa) while buying/selling assets to and from other users in a trust-based way (based on reviews of them posted by other users on a community-maintained telegram channel)

u/Vandelay101 has a take on the current state of web 3 gaming

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gk03k8/daily_general_discussion_november_5_2024/lvk269s/)

Web3 gaming was one sector I was looking forward to having a breakout year. It still may, but I'm now thinking it will be over a longer time horizon. It just seems like the space is maturing at a snail's pace. Seeing a AAA studio, even if it's Ubisoft (oh, how the mighty have fallen), launch their first "NFT game" and receive so much backlash is not all that surprising...

But what stands out to me is that Web3 gaming is still being wholesale branded and reported on as "NFT games". That phrase just carries a bad connotation to me, as it implies that players are already somehow burdened with collectibles and/or have to spend currency on in-game marketplace assets in order to remain competitive. Perhaps the space deserves the unflattering branding, at least for now... Game developers get greedy and, as their first foray into on-chain gaming, adopt a pay-to-play / pay-to-win model. Over time, though, creativity will shine through... We'll begin to see developers adopt models tailored specifically to Web3 gaming platforms that empower the player without creating the unnecessary friction that the old guard has made all too commonplace.

Right now it seems like we're only in the early discovery phase of this space's potential. The big-name game developers have only dipped their toes into Web3 gaming thus far, dedicating only a small fraction of the resources as they would to a traditional AAA title launch. But they don't want to be caught with their pants down, however, in case Web3 becomes the future of gaming... So they throw a few bucks at a "NFT game" concept, build a few relations here and there with companies that can onboard them, and call it a day.

My hope is that game developers are able to navigate past NFTs serving as the focal point in the majority of Web3 game designs, and get to a point where they're exploring fresh concepts while keep the players' best interests at heart (fun, immersion, etc.). I'm starting to believe the first hit to really take the Web3 gaming sector by storm will come from a smaller indie developer who adopts a model that is unique in how it leverages the advantages of being built on a borderless, trustless, decentralized network.

Admittedly, I haven't done much research on this topic... Just throwing out some loose observations and ramblings.

u/cryptOwOcurrency checks in on Solana and u/growthepie_eth provides some important context

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gk03k8/daily_general_discussion_november_5_2024/lvjr8dd/)

u/cryptOwOcurrency:

As always, I apologize for solanaposting, especially on such an anxious day for many. But I think responses to this might help me better understand ETH.

If we look at the DefiLlama fees, Solana has surpassed Ethereum in 24-hour fee revenue.

https://defillama.com/fees

Yes, I believe this doesn't include L2 revenue, but L2 revenue translates only indirectly to L1 revenue anyways. And yes, I'm aware that it's only been for a couple of days - Ethereum is still looking much stronger on the monthly/yearly.

If we take a SOL staking yield of 6% (from stakingrewards.com) and an inflation rate of 4.9% (from solanacompass.com), that means SOL staking has a real yield of 1.1% (no idea if these sources are accurate but they seem reasonable enough). I am aware that this ignores the upcoming token unlocks for VC dumping, but while the dumping could affect price, I don't believe it should affect real yield (which could be accessed then, after the dumping).

Q's:

Is this data accurate?
Is it possible that Solana could pass up ETH in monthly fee revenue, then fee revenue in general?
Can any old schmo forever access this risk-free yield just by staking like on Ethereum, or are there some special Solana strings attached (aside from the usual disadvantages of the Solana chain itself)?
Does this fee revenue comparison matter at all? What should I make of it? I feel like the most important property that ETH has over other tokens is a real staking yield (ETH's credible neutrality is up there, too).

https://x.com/NethermindEth/status/1854150431448109155

u/growthepie_eth:

I can only speak on Ethereum data and it looks to be correct I would add the following context:

Using a 7 day rolling Avg Ethereum fee revenue = $3.29M (yesterday's rolling Avg)
If we were to also include Layer 2s this would be $3.57M
Ethereum has proved it can remain secure and keep demand with lower issuance (subsidy) this shouldn't be taken for granted on other chains.
The Blob market is very new and is only just starting to generate revenue and this will change over time.

Anything is possible Solana is subsidizing fees with higher issuance in an attempt to gain more revenue whilst also having different security assumptions on decentralization. Ethereum blobs have really taken the wind out of those sails by allowing L2s to compete and beat them on transaction costs. Ethereum has sacrificed revenue in the short term as we enter the growth stage for L2s this will enable them to grow faster without having to dramatically increase issuance - this is a long-term play.
I think with Solana they use DPOS so you're delegating rather than self staking and to be a delegate you have to have super expensive hardware and bandwidth. So different risk profile but yes anyone can get access to the yield don't I know how much yield the delegate keeps?
I think it does matter but is far from the only thing that matters - ETH being used as a unit of account on all these L2s and many of them charge their users in ETH all play into ETHs use and value (not financial advice)

u/haurog introduces us to Nethermind's new L2

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gkrnmn/daily_general_discussion_november_6_2024/lvplnvj/)

Nethermind just announced that they will launch a based rollup called surge:

or

https://xcancel.com/NethermindEth/status/1854150431448109155

It is built on the Taiko stack, will be stage 2 at launch, uses ETH as token and they plan to have a Gigagas throughput. This is about 700 times more throughput than mainnet. They will not be able to achieve that with the current number of blobs, but I guess that is their goal in the future.

More info on surge.wtf

u/Tricky_Troll thinks that inflation is coming regardless of politics

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gkrnmn/daily_general_discussion_november_6_2024/lvotkmp/)

The year is 203X, after failing to manage the deficit, the US government has defaulted on its debts by printing it away. Inflation is unsurprisingly out of control.

Person 1: I really wish the government managed the deficit better. This inflation is insane!

Person 2: Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos!

Kodos's policies would have also lead to inflation. The US government is already past the point of no return because any politician voted in who is willing to implement the austerity required to get the budget back on track would be swiftly voted out. The game theory says it is no longer possible. Do not get left holding the fiat bag.

u/benido2030 provides us with a ZKSync delegate update

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gkrnmn/daily_general_discussion_november_6_2024/lvp5lma/)

So yesterday u/phimarhal tagged me to show support for TPP1, which is the first proposal in the zksync ecosystem. Voting opened yesterday. I indeed will be voting FOR, but this is not the reason for this post. I wanna share my experience and thoughts being a first-time-delegate.

The TPP is called "zksync Ignite Program". Their one sentence summary is

Allocate 325,000,000 ZK tokens over nine months to deploy a program designed to establish a DeFi liquidity hub on ZKsync Era, aimed at increasing DeFi TVL and improving liquidity across all interoperable ZK Chains (”Elastic Chain”).

So it's about mining/ attracting liquidity by handing out ZK incentives in various defi protocols. The proposal is not reinventing the wheel here, it's similar to STIP/LTIP you might know from Arbitrum.

At the same time TPPs are supposed to be different. zksync (not the delegates) presented TPPs in a way where things are supposed to be as automatic and onchain as possible. Instead of giving out grants/ incentives to protocols, TPPs are supposed to be "autonomous token allocation processes". If you are really interested in this, please see these two threads in the forum, the TPP FAQ and then this presentation.

I think the idea is beautiful, even if I still have issues to really understand how this is supposed to work onchain. Here comes the twist... TPP1 is not even remotely close to being automatic. The whole program is a lot of manual work. And - as we later found out - was/ is a project that the zksync team supports, I guess it was design with them and there's a lot of support for it. Despite being... the opposite of what they told us the TPPs are supposed to be.

I found the proposal cause I follow zknation and zksync on twitter. This is the tweet and as you can see zksync Ignite had a twitter account, created before the proposal was even published. The zksync twitter account even states the following:

ZKsync Ignite will turn ZKsync Era into a liquidity hub for the Elastic Chain by streaming 300M ZK tokens over 9 months to DeFi users.

So it... will? Or could?

Also the first comment in the TPP thread in the forum was created minutes after publishing it, the account posting it was created the same day, until today it has been in the forum 2 days, less than 1 minute of total reading time. But was super supportive.

If you are still with me, I apologize, cause I am just starting and know this is already a wall of text, thank you for your patience and still reading!

u/NextLevelFantasy shares the stats from the most recent Gitcoin Grants round

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gljtif/daily_general_discussion_november_7_2024/lvv8eht/)

GG22 stats, end of round

Matching Pool $1,518,000
Total Donated $276,526
Total Donations 131,983
Unique Donors 27,315
Total Rounds 12
Total Projects 496

https://gitcoin.co/grants-data

#85: November 1, 2024

Special guest Paul Brody joins us from EY.

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ggyuhz/comment/luthwqc/)

u/johnnydappeth

Ethereum

u/benido2030

2501 USD

Fairly significant US crypto tax rule change:

0.0361

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gcdmiv/comment/ltwvcbj/)

Blockchain underneath,

The best asset to bequeath,

The ticker is ETH.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gg7smg/comment/luptdoa/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: u/cryptOwOcurrency

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gg7smg/comment/luqa2uc/)

Since lately it seems like chains with less technology pump more, I suggest we remove some technology from Ethereum. Roll back 1559, go back to PoW... actually we could get rid of the blockchain aspect altogether, since nobody seems to care. We could run it in a SQL database. Or we could even get rid of the ledger altogether. Ethereum would be a system of IOUs, an unstoppable concept, with n-of-n decentralization in the minds of its true believers.

Everyone should write down how much ETH they have before we get rid of the blockchain. Write them onto little pieces of paper with denominations on them. DO NOT create any more paper than you actually owned in ETH. PLEASE, that's very important. Then as a replacement for smart contracts, we will talk about what should happen if something happens, and then you shake hands. You NEED to honor every agreement you shook on. If everyone promises to do that, this might just work.

This plan flips the script on Bitcoin, because now Ethereum has the fewest amount of moving parts. Now Ethereum is the most dependable. If something has no code, it can't have bugs in it. If something has no development, its roadmap cannot be compromised. If something is only an idea, it cannot be shut down.

In other words, the Ethereum Foundation touts its "philosophy of subtraction", but does it really walk the walk? I challenge them to dream smaller.

u/interweaver explains how Ethereum's fee markets work

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gbml3v/daily_general_discussion_october_25_2024/ltojfr2/)

Just a quick recap on how fee markets work in Ethereum (both for blockspace and for blobspace):

There's a base fee, which represents the current "state" of the fee market. That base fee sets how much a unit of gas costs (for normal transactions, which use blockspace, and disregarding tips) or how much a blob costs.

There's also a target amount of resource usage: for normal transactions, that's the target gas (15M units of gas), which is half of the max gas per block (30M), and for blobs it's currently 3 blobs (out of a maximum of 6).

Each block, the actual resource usage (gas or blobs) ends up being some number 0 <= amount <= max, which will be either greater than, equal to, or less than, the target for that resource.

Here's the important part: if the resource usage is greater than the target (e.g. 20M gas used, which is greater than the 15M target, or 5 blobs instead of the target 3), the next block the basefee/blob fee for that resource will be higher by a certain percentage. The opposite also applies; if the resource usage is less than the target, the basefee/blob fee will decrease by a certain percentage.

It's actually kind of genius; this means that Ethereum's fees automatically adjust to demand.

If there's high demand, aka more users willing to pay higher gas fees for normal transactions, or more L2s willing to pay higher blob fees for blob-carrying transactions, then you would expect to see usage exceed the targets, and the next block will have higher fees, until the fees become too much and the demand (at that fee level) comes back to the target.

If there's low demand, in theory the opposite occurs: it indicates the resource is currently overpriced relative to supply and demand, and so the next block will have a cheaper basefee/blob fee, hopefully encouraging more usage in order to meet the target. This has worked out well for gas fees, because Ethereum has plenty of pent-up demand for transactions that are willing to wait for cheap gas; there's never a lack of transactions ready to be submitted when basefees lower.

However, I said "in theory" because blob fees are in a different situation currently. The mechanism works the same as with the basefee, but L2s are currently not creating enough demand for blobspace the large majority of the time. This means that even when blobfees are extremely cheap (the minimum it can go to, 1 wei per blob), there's simply not enough blobs being submitted for the average block to meet its blob target (3 blobs), and if you'll recall, this means that the blob fee would continue to go down in the next block, except that it's pinned at the minimum.

So observe this highly binary situation: either there is enough demand for a resource, at all times, that Ethereum can always make sure it's on average meeting its target usage for that resource, or there is not. Block gas currently has enough demand; blobs currently do not. And observe what this means for fees: if there is enough demand for the resource, the fee will stay floating at some fair market rate, much greater than 0, and Ethereum can collect (and burn) those fees. But if there is not enough demand, the fee will bottom out at ~0 and stay there, except during occasional spikes in demand. That's where we're at with blobs right now.

And crucially, observe that this is a switch that can and will flip itself at some point in the future, when blob demand from L2s and other users increases past a critical threshold, namely 3 blobs per 12 seconds. Once the average demand exceeds that, Ethereum will instantly enter a regime where blob pricing needs to follow market rates, rather than being pinned at 0.

And as we all know, L2s are very insensitive to blob pricing. During recent blob fee spikes, we saw certain L2s paying absurd prices for their blobs, think multiple Ether for each blob. This is likely due to them not putting appropriate limits/waits in place, but it illustrates the point: L2s, with their high 'compression ratios' of L2 transactions to L1 commit transactions, are able to pay much higher fees than ordinary transactions on L1 are.

So putting it all together: blob fees will be 0, until suddenly they are very much not 0 when demand for blobs passes a certain threshhold.

And L2 growth over the past year has been fairly exponential. We will pass that threshold in the near future (potentially delayed somewhat if we raise the blob target in Pectra, albeit.)

All the handwringing about how Ethereum is not capturing value from its L2s will seem like a very silly concern not too long from now, in other words.

u/HSuke warns us of a US crypto tax rule change

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gbml3v/daily_general_discussion_october_25_2024/ltozg9l/)

Effective January 1, 2025, ALL taxpayers will be required to track cost basis at the wallet level. In other words, if you have ETH in Wallet A and ETH in Wallet B, and then you sell some ETH in Wallet B, you cannot pull the cost basis from Wallet A

So each wallet is treated as a separate tax bucket

Also discussed here

Edit: This ONLY applies to FIFO. Most of you who transfer assets between wallets/accounts will likely not be able to use FIFO or use Specific ID (based on my limited understanding of this). Honestly, my accounts will be in a bit of a mess and probably cannot use FIFO due to this rule.

u/TheHansGruber talks staking with NodeSet and RocketPool

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gcdmiv/daily_general_discussion_october_26_2024/ltwh8ln/)

About an hour ago I had the privilege to launch my first NodeSet validator. There are over 500 now, and the limit per operator has just been increased from 4 to 5. I'll have to wait 24 hours give or take to launch my second, but as long as these big deposits keep flowing in, I will keep launching minipools. It may seem farfetched now, but operators running 100+ minipools each is not out of the question. Adoption can happen fast.

BTW, these ops are sharks...there is a script floating around that checks the pool for deposits and if gas is favorable will automatically launch another minipool. I launched mine manually but am in the process of setting the script up for myself as well.

The rocketpool deposit pool, which has been bloated for the last several months (and been a drag on rETH APR) has been cut in half in two weeks. And xrETH hasn't even been integrated into defi at all. Really proud to be playing a small part in this fine group of operators.

On top of that, the Saturn 0 upgrade that's coming in a few days is going to further reduce the deposit pool as new minipools will lose the RPL requirement.

Basically, it's been a nice little Saturday. Ignoring the FUD, watching Vitamin B go ham on shitposters, launching 'pools. I got my database and GUI up and running on my little project. Blops 6 released, and they brought back round based zombies (which is the only way to do it, imo) and the I'm lovin' the 90's aesthetic. Might go for some ice cream later, who knows?

Ticker is ETH.

u/696_eth shares some of EVMavericks' best achievements so far!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gcdmiv/daily_general_discussion_october_26_2024/lttd7ee/)

Top Achievements of EVMavericks in 2023

🔝Top accomplishments of EVMavericks in the year of 2023👇:

The Withdrowls NFT drop on Arbitrum was created by Naenaebaby and etheraider to celebrate the Shapella upgrade and being able to 'Withdraw' our ETH from the staking contract. All the funds raised -- 9.74e -- went to public goods.

Example
Buildathon - Withdrowls Public Goods Funding. Open competition for anyone that wanted to build for public goods or services on web3 with prizes totaling 9.74e.

We had a 3-way tie so all winners:

Lidont, rETH skimmer & EVMavericks Origin - received 3.08 ETH each. Honorable mentions go to projects such as ByteGuide and TwitterBot.
Started the Weekly Dots Roundup podcast highlighting the brilliant community of EVMavericks & Ethfinance. We produced more than 40 episodes with a variety of guests.
Creators, Doomfuzz & TheBenMeadows, collaborated with FakeRareDecal for szn1 and created 68 editions of EVMavericks Decal.
Collaborated with Swell by participating in the bootstrapping campaign - Swell Voyage. Our members got extra perks such as additional pearls if they held a minimum of 0.2 swETH. Decal
Chad Fund was birthed. The DAO managed portfolio managed by degens.
Started Rocket school - a website along with an educational video series to guide people through the process of setting up a Rocket Pool node.
Have grown DAO's treasury:

Financial report from 2023: Our Treasury has grown 155% since the 1st of August and is now worth $79,329 without NFTs ($149,531 if we were to value the EVMs at the current floor price). We currently hold 17.9 rETH, have launched the Chad Fund (~2 ETH) and are in the progress of setting up and getting started with the Stewards Investment Portfolio (~10 ETH). This is a collective effort so all feedback and suggestions are welcome. Stewards and Chad Fund members are responsible for carrying out the transactions. See the following document for all the Treasury information:

Other notable events:

One of our creative members - heeey - dropped his collection Bright on Art Blocks. That ended up doing very well and many Mavs got their 'Bright' art as we were eligible for it. Example
EVMs such as The-A-Word helping out fellow lions when they are in need or fell victims to scams, hacks. At the end of the day, it's about the community and social aspect and we are lucky to have such generous and kind members in our pride.
Celebrated one-year anniversary by doing a lion pride where we encouraged all EVMs to wear their lion for the week. Besides that, we ran some raffles of EIPandas!

Subscribe and stay tuned for the upcoming 'best of EVMavericks' from 2024!

u/waqwaqattack introduces us to tomorrow's big RocketPool upgrade

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gcdmiv/daily_general_discussion_october_26_2024/ltvcmyj/)

Rocket Pool is upgrading to Saturn 0 tomorrow (Sunday night, 8pm Eastern time). The upgrade will allow people to stake with Rocket Pool without requiring any RPL bond - ETH only validators are here! Part of this upgrade is that existing node operators will start earning RPL rewards again.

I recorded a special episode of Rocket Fuel with Samus, one of the RP community members who was involved in researching the upgrade. You can watch it here https://youtu.be/q0EoHRuCi3g. In the episode, Samus explains the reason for this upgrade as part of the official Saturn roadmap. He gives information on what rewards for ETH only validators will be - 1.3x solo staking rewards, how everyone will get RPL rewards from next month, and his ideas on the impact will have on Rocket Pool's growth.

The Rocket Pool deposit pool has been in an overflow state for months, but that is going to change this week. If you want to mint rETH directly from the Rocket Pool contract, you will have that chance again from Monday onwards.

If you are an existing node operator with 16 eth validators, you can switch to LEB8s for an immediate boost in rewards - without needing to add a single RPL token. If you have any questions, please let me know, and I'll answer them here.

Are you ready to join us, u/cryptomoon2020! The water's warm. Get in the pool!

u/LogrisTheBard finished his Rabbit Hole Explorer's Guide

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gd4es8/daily_general_discussion_october_27_2024/lu35fn6/)

Finally I'm at the end of my Rabbit Hole Explorer's Guide and boy has that been a journey.

Recommended First Steps

Up until now I've covered a frighteningly lengthy sequence of things not to do and ways you can lose everything. To conclude let's focus on what should you do to get started? What's in your metaphorical backpack so you can be prepared like a good little boy scout? Where should you go exploring first?

Curate Your Feed

Generally speaking my feed consists of three things:

Project introductions. This is mostly YouTube for me. My list changes over time but has included Bankless, Bell Curve, and some much smaller accounts like Jordan McKinney. This type of content is often very biased so don't expect too much from it besides background context on the project, what they are doing and how it's novel, and the bull case. They usually aren't going to compare themselves to their peers here or tell you how the project might fail. This will give you a list of things to research more deeply.
Official announcements. I check my Discord/Telegram announcement feed every morning, build up a list of tabs, and clear it by the end of the day. Sometimes I'll hear about new projects from partnership announcements.
Discussion. This is where people get into the most trouble. Don't let a social media tech giant direct your learning. Price of a project being shilled (especially on short horizons) is a terrible metric for the quality of a source. You might think to follow technology leaders but without enough background you're as likely to start following Charles Hoskinson or Richard Heart as Vitalik Buterin. They all sound convincing to the uninitiated. What I recommend is rather than look for technical or wealthy people to instead look for project experts other than the team members that post about an application or ecosystem you already understand. You need to be able make sense of what is being said and make an informed decision about whether they are saying it in an intellectually honest way. Personally, I'll also actively talk with community managers and members of projects but I'm looking for much deeper information or collaboration opportunities. You're never going to find a Microsoft dev to ask question to but you very well might find and ask questions directly to a project founder in web3.

The more you fill your feed with people who are only interested in price the less happy you'll be. The more impatient you are to get rich quick, the more money will slip through your fingers and the more you're going to be spending on therapy and blood pressure meds. Instead fill your feed with information worth knowing and spreading.

Hands On Learning

Undoubtedly the best way to explore the Rabbit Hole is to go there yourself. As I hopefully gotten across by now, focus on survival. Learn with small amounts to limit the liability of beginners mistakes. Start with stablecoins where you can to avoid price volatility risks. Start with older projects and projects with higher TVL because they tend to be safer. Start with simpler applications. In an attempt to be helpful getting you started here is a bunch of things to search out yourself sorted into categories by relevance to you and then roughly by approachability and importance. There's a lot of editorial discretion here and you can be sure this is incomplete and will be out of date.

Defi

Money markets such as Aave and Compound
Dexs such as Uniswap and Curve
Liquidity incentives/farming such as bribes, bonds, marketing, points
Leverage such as Gearbox, Defisaver, or GMX
Options such as Lyra, Hegic
Real world asset protocols such as Centrifuge and Maker
Regen finance such as Gitcoin Grants, Greenpill, and Klima

Digital Identity

Ethereum Name Service (ENS), basically a human readable address
Ethereum Attestation Service (EAS). Let anyone prove that you or someone else claimed something.
Sybil resistance systems such as WorldCoin, BrightID, Proof of Humanity
Achievements such as Rabbit Hole or Layer3

NFTs

Communities such as Bored Apes or EVMavericks
RWAs such as Get Protocol
Corporate NFTs such as Nike and Starbucks

Gaming

Auto battlers such as Axie Infinity and Illuvium Arena
Strategy games such as InfluenceETH and Illuvium Zero

Memecoins

Doge, Bonk, Wif, etc. I'll mark this cavern with a skull and crossbones.

Depin

Restaking such as EigenLayer, Symbiotic, and Karak.
Oracles such as Chainlink, UMA, and EOracle
Keepers such as Keeper Network and Gelato
Data availability such as EigenDA and Celestia
Compute sharing systems such as Golem and Spheron
AI in various forms such as Ritual, BitTensor s19, etc

Enterprise

Logistics systems such as Nightfall
Proof of Authority chains

Foundational Tech

Rollup technology such as Blobs, Validiums, and Fraud Proofs
Scaling Technology such as Verkle Trees and Proposer Builder Separation
Privacy Technology such as TEE, FHE, MPC

Review Prior Scams

After every hack you'll find a post-mortem. You should bookmark these when you find them and swing by every once in awhile as you level up until one day it clicks. Occasionally you'll even find useful summaries like this one that infodump many of these in one place. Eventually you'll know what jargon like reentrancy guards are. You learn a lot about how things work by how things break.

Conclusion

Over time if you follow the advice here you'll know more than 99% of Crypto Twitter on a good variety of topics, you'll be able to take measured and deliberate risks, and you'll fall into communities that share your values. You'll probably meet some of these people in person at conferences. You may end up getting a job here. You may end up not needing a job at all. You'll definitely find sources of joy and points of light in an otherwise dark world. Whatever happens, you will be changed in ways you aren't expecting. I hope you'll come away a better, happier, and wealthier person.

You can find the whole thing at this self-serving link.

u/emp2b3 shares their unlikely solo staker journey!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gd4es8/daily_general_discussion_october_27_2024/lu0lw7i/)

After the Merge I started looking into staking, but the only internet options at the time weren't great and I don't have a tech background / had never used CLI etc. I saw several posts talking about how anyone can do it but really didn't think that could apply to me. I looked at the SomerEsat guides and they looked very thorough but I quickly became overwhelmed.

Well, fiber internet without a data cap was installed in our neighborhood and I decided it was time (and was worried that Allnodes would be cost prohibitive with Saturn 1 for Rocket Pool allowing for 4 ETH validators). People in the Rocket Pool #hardware channel helped me find an appropriate setup and following the RP guides I was able to get up and running on Holesky Testnet. My questions in the #support channel were answered within minutes.

Now I am on Mainnet and I am obsessed with starting at my Grafana dashboard! The SmartNode stack is super helpful for someone like me that only had a vague understanding of what Linux even was.

If you have have been on the fence about running your own node, it really is possible! For me the Rocket Pool community has been a great help and I also found answers in the EthStaker community.

u/austonst briefs us on his month ahead in Thailand and the reporting he will be doing

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gdv8ez/daily_general_discussion_october_28_2024/lu5dt72/)

Devcon & Friends Intro and Plans

Something I like to do when the time arises is to report on Ethereum conference happenings, e.g. my EthCC summaries. This started when I first attended ETHDenver, and I generally just attended talks all day every day, took notes, and summarized my favorites. Now that I'm more involved on a day-to-day basis, my conference activities have become a bit more varied and I find that if you're already in the loop, conference talks tend to just repeat info that's available in more detail elsewhere.

But I still like to report on the talks that I find interesting, and can always find topics I'm less familiar with if I just step away from the MEV talks for a minute. Regardless of technical content, I also like to convey a little bit of what these events feel like to attend, for anyone who may be interested in the future. And finally, I hope to encourage ethfinanciers to be the change they want to see in the sub: the sorts of summaries I write are the sort of content I also enjoy consuming here, and I'd always like to see more of it.

So today I thought I'd hit on the broader Ethereum event structure. You see, I just arrived in Thailand and will be here for nearly a month doing Ethereum stuff. If you really want to you can structure your whole life around bouncing from tangentially-Ethereum-related event to tangentially-Ethereum-related event. Some people do just that, and would be better qualified to explain that lifestyle, but I think I'm getting a taste of it here. So I'll give a bit of an overview of what I'm looking at in Thailand.

To start off, I am in Chiang Mai for the last two weeks of Edge City Lanna. There are a lot of different potential lenses through which to look at Edge City, but in general it is a month-long popup village where attendees all live in the same neighborhood in Chiang Mai, with a number of buildings rented out to serve as communal coworking, dining, social, wellness, and learning spaces. It creates a bit of a university campus feeling. There's lots of room for flexibly structuring your day with some combination of your own work and shared workshops/classes, with infrastructure in place to help you eat well, socialize, and keep your body and mind healthy. That description leaves a lot in the air for what people actually do there, but it's generally web3/Ethereum (+longevity/AI/network-state/health/etc) focused: we have tracks on stablecoins and governance this week, and next week I'll be diving into Sequencing Week to focus on based sequencing and preconfirmations.

Then I fly down to Bangkok. Shortly before Devcon I am attending the Staking Summit. I went to their event last year in Istanbul and thought it was interesting enough to attend again. The core audience is really institutional staking-as-a-service providers, and a lot of people there see staking as just like a financial product that gives yield, and don't really care about the underlying protocols. But they offered a steep discount to home stakers so I expect to see some friendly faces there, and I can always chat with validators about their thoughts on timing games, MEV, commitments/preconfs, and so on. If it turns out to be boring, well, I could probably use a few days off.

Then comes Devcon proper. I guess there's still no concrete schedule, but there are four main days on the calendar. A number of side events too, which for the most part come in the days before Devcon or in the evenings after Devcon days. I'm signed up for far too many sequencing events and expect to be thoroughly bored of the subject by the end. For Devcon I intend to be in full conference mode, attending talks and writing up my usual summaries.

Finally comes Hodlercon in Phuket. This is the one place on the internet where Hodlercon needs no particular explanation. I expect to treat Hodlercon kind of like Edge City, aiming for a mix of learning, socializing, and leading for a healthy lifestyle. But of course it's going to be more personal, even less structured, and more vacation-y. The planner that the team has been working with has... not been particularly impressive so far. But as long as we get our hotel rooms confirmed and we can all make it to Phuket together, we can always work out the rest.

That's a lot of time in Thailand! And plenty to do. I think I'm going to be very glad to get back to a cool climate after a long, tropical month.

So I'll give my thoughts on Edge City once it's done, and will report on Staking Summit if it's interesting enough to warrant the posts. Devcon gets daily updates for sure, Hodlercon maybe gets one summary at the end. In the meantime, Edge City provides plenty of opportunity for focused work time, and I think it may be time to write up a primer on based sequencing and preconfs intended for the solo+home staker audience. I think there are even writing clinics here where I can get some feedback first. Anyone else visiting can feel free to reach out whenever!

u/unthinkablecryto is thinking about the next killer app

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gdv8ez/daily_general_discussion_october_28_2024/lu8sz4f/)

The Bridge acquisition by Stripe has really got me thinking where this space, particularly for ETH is headed. It's becoming pretty obvious to me that payments across the world will start moving on-chain. This is smart-contracts and blockchains killer use case I believe at least for the next 10 years. But these will primarily done in USD for now. Stablecoins are in the top 20 for holders of US debt worldwide. I believe on bankless they said that above 95% of all stablecoins are USD. Stablecoins are exporting USD to the world, only making it stronger, and the war on inflation, is all but won for now, so everyone feels pretty good about USD.

But there is still the elephant in the room that is our rising debt. I love reading this article ( https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2023/10/6/when-does-federal-debt-reach-unsustainable-levels )by the School of Wharton last year saying that we have basically have 20 years to turn things around. This is why no really cares about ETH or BTC as money (I mean I do) but the average person thinks well I have the USD now available to me, which has low inflation again, and I have 20 years before I need to worry about exiting USD. Its not even on their radar right now replacing USD.

So USD stablecoin use rise in countries that have inflation, we have already seen this on Tron, and exchange to exchange wallets.

What brings on everyone else on-chain? Merchants and banks will love the settlement time of blockchains but for most users credit cards are already a great experience, and people love the rewards. I think this starts as a grass led movement where independent merchants incentivize users to pay on-chain directly with discounts and tokens/NFTs (some of which will have utility). Coinbase seems to be the leader behind this with their wallet and best in class Base experience (paying gas fees in USDC, covering transfer fees, and their SDKs/APIs) (though Stripe could really compete here, I remember the explosive growth of the headphone jack iPhone card reader).

Beyond that we really need a privacy solution (likely ZK, plus a regulated compliance framework) for general banking I believe. Credit Card companies will likely move on chain in the background too, but the average person won't know tap to pay with phones and cards will still be common place. And they will mainly be doing it to reduce their fees, and settlement times as well, they will likely still charge the same take rate until they are forced to lower it from competition from people making payments directly. Got to keep the reward train rolling somehow.

Opportunities for investment I am looking for 1) incentive programs for payments ( I doubt every merchant will create their own from scratch) 2) useable directory of businesses that take stablecoins, (Incentives here for being listed/accepting?) 3) compliance enabled privacy. I think Base / Coinbase dominate in the short term but then as fragmentation issues get cleaned up L2s in general dominate these payments because of the SDKs and developers behind ETH. ETH price will do well with increased usage but look to see major increases in price for ETH for monetary premium in 10 years if the US does nothing to address debts. Until then we need usage and real payments. The user experience seems like it's ready, now it's about making people want to accept and to pay on-chain, and clean up the bad image that crypto is all a scam.

u/cryptOwOcurrency introduces us to indistinguishability obfuscation

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gent1b/daily_general_discussion_october_29_2024/lufr83e/)

I knew about zero knowledge proofs and fully-homomorphic encryption already, but indistinguishability obfuscation is an insane new cryptography primitive I'd never heard of before.

Basically, iO lets you encrypt a program in such a way that someone can run it, but can never figure out the program's internals no matter how hard they try to analyze/decompile the program.

Further reading on Wikipedia.

Math is crazy!

Edit: And if I understand it properly, it's gonna be insane for DRM!

#84: October 25, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gbml3v/comment/ltmzi45/)

Ethereum!

$2497.87

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3562701/chinese-researchers-break-rsa-encryption-with-a-quantum-computer.html

0.03688

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gaux5i/comment/ltl2zmo/)

Think before you act,

Onchain you are always tracked,

Government got hacked.

Shitpost of the week: u/timwithnotoolbelt

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gaux5i/comment/ltj9dg6/)

I thought SOL was the ETH killer. Shouldn’t Kraken be building on Solana?

u/MinimalGravitas makes a FUD fighting appreciation post

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g5j8g6/daily_general_discussion_october_17_2024/lsc76ca/)

Shout out to u/epic_trader for pushing back on the misinformation and false narratives on r/cc.

And a reminder for anyone with an interest in this space to take a look over there and in /ethereum periodically to provide some insights and sanity to discussions if you have any to spare.

There's a lot of nonsense spread by Bitcoin maxis; /buttcoin moderators; and alt-L1 bagholders, and if you don't want them controlling the narrative on Ethereum then you can be the change you want to see.

u/OurNumber4 covers some quantum computing news and u/haurog provides more context

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g5j8g6/daily_general_discussion_october_17_2024/lsc1g7f/)

u/OurNumber4:

Chinese researchers break RSA encryption with a quantum computer:

And here’s why is not a problem:

https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/2612/difficulty-of-breaking-rsa-for-a-given-key-size

Credit: r/cc (sometimes there is decent info in the comments)

To give a bit of context.

They used D-Waves quantum annealer which normally are not called quantum computers as they use a different principle. Generally these quantum annealers can only solve a very narrow set of optimization problems. When people talk about cracking cryptography they always refer to proper quantum computers for which for example Shor's algorithm has been developed. And to the best of my knowledge no one has a quantum computer to run Shor's algorithm even for the smallest of RSA key lengths.

The Chinese group found a way to use such a quantum annealer optimization to help to factorize a 50 bit RSA integer. Nowadays RSA key length should be at least 2048 bits long and normally should be 4096 bits long. To the best of my knowledge, the longest RSA key that has been cracked a few years ago was 829 bits long. Classical computer are still far ahead.

As far as I see the paper itself has been published in a very niche journal which not really solidifies the credibility of their approach as the review process in many of these journals is severely lacking. Even more so than in established journals.

As far as I see the results are viewed negatively. See here for example for a more in depth discussion: https://www.forbes.com/sites/craigsmith/2024/10/16/department-of-anti-hype-no-china-hasnt-broken-military-encryption-with-quantum-computers/

Do not get me wrong. Quantum computers are an important thing to keep in mind and follow. This result published by this group is just not very meaningful but it might be a small step in the direction we expect the quantum computing space to go. Not today, not tomorrow, but in a few years. Overall, the progress is slower than I expected it a few years ago, but we are definitely in the direction of quantum computers becoming a problem for encryption in our lifetime.

Source: I think a few years ago the majority of large quantum computing labs ran an qubit stabilization algorithm I helped develop in the company I was working at. Not sure how many actually used it, but most of them bought it. I left the company many years ago now, but still meet former colleagues and we chat about the development in this space.

u/Tricky_Troll starts a discussion about FUD busting Ethereum

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g71lyc/daily_general_discussion_october_19_2024/lsnwy1c/)

Do you guys think that there would be value in some sort of FUD busting Ethereum platform a bit like what EthHub used to be in 2018 - 2020 which we could use to combat things like the misinformation and link to in response to all of the blatant lies which gets spread on places like r/ethereum and Twitter?

I'm still unemployed after finishing my masters and I love learning more about Ethereum and helping to bust all of the FUD in other subreddits but I don't know anything about making websites and then also finding a way to integrate the easy answers and information into places where it is needed like r/ethereum and Twitter. Maybe this could be a good project to spin out of EVMavericks. Anyway, I'd happily create content for such a place, a bit like more permanent posts like many dooters here make from time to time. A bit of an Ethereum FUD fighting handbook. I actually just did a grant ecosystem outline for EthStaker and I can tell you that there's plenty of grant money up for grabs for legitimate projects.

So what do you guys think? Is such a thing needed? Does it already exist? And if it is needed and doesn't already exist, could we spin something up out of this community?

u/18boro starts a discussion about blob fees and u/pa7x1 weights in on the issue and its proposed change

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g71lyc/daily_general_discussion_october_19_2024/lsnkso0/)

u/18boro:

I'm sorta following the discussions around the proposal on a minimum cost for blobs. Since this is currently not production ready, this will be implemented in pectra 2 at the earliest right?

Also, thoughts on this? It makes sense to me, but my technical understanding is very superficial. We really can't afford blobs to enter a potentially high fee market, that will erode their purpose as a low fee environment on ethereum. That means we need to continue increasing blobs capacity, but with no minimum cost the L2s will continue to live free on ethereum.

EVMavericks Weekly Recap (October 14-20)

u/pa7x1:

One way to think about it. The current min blob fee is 1 Wei, this figure is as arbitrary as any other. It just happens to be the minimal denomination of ETH in the protocol. So it was a lazy choice, or maybe better put, a lack of explicit choice that happened to set the minimal blob price there. If the minimal denomination of ETH would have been higher, that same lazy choice would have resulted in a different minimal base fee.

A more sensible choice is to place it somewhere where blobs are still very cheap when used under capacity, so that the network incentivizes adoption. But when the network observes actual demand blob price discovery can happen in a reasonably short time frame. The EIP makes an attempt to do exactly this. And to be honest, the precise figure you set it at does not matter that much up to a few orders of magnitude up or down, because the exponential update of the blob fee can act relatively quickly.

So I'm in favor of the change. There is perhaps smarter things that can be done with the fee markets of blob and gas. There are some interesting proposals for using AMMs, PIDs, etc... I think those deserve to be explored too, but they are more complex and need to be very well understood economically. This EIP is just a very quick and risk-free fix to an obvious problem with the current blob pricing.

u/Dreth provides some good perspective on where Ethereum is currently at

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1gaux5i/daily_general_discussion_october_24_2024/ltkbx86/)

Believe it or not, the blobs upgrade might be one of the bigger reasons why ETH isn't doing much better price wise. I'm not sure if traders generally consider this a factor, though I would imagine they do given that ETH performed much better relative to BTC (as it had historically) between The Merge and the last upgrade.

Blobs have given the apparent impression that Ethereum is empty and with no activity. The L2 scaling roadmap allows for absolutely explosive activity on L2s, but it makes L1 seem deserted when that L2 activity isn't saturating L1.

Is this bad? No, it's fantastic, it is just a consequence of the upgrade and activity not exploding just yet, but this is an illusion. If you take a look at L2Beat in mid 2023 and today, the amount of new L2s is absolutely ridiculous. It seems like there's more new L2s than new apps and it is insanely easy to underestimate the potential effects of this.

While everyone is looking at useless ratios like ETH/BTC or ETH/SOL, plenty of new projects are appearing to develop their own L2s. Ethereum is no longer just an 'app chain' it is a chain of chains. Pretty much what Polkadot or Cosmos set out to be, but in a more 'open' way so to speak. I don't understand in full depth the implementation of app chains in these two other projects, but in Ethereum I know projects can have plenty of different configurations regarding where data is stored, where execution happens, etc etc. The appearance of macro-protocols like Eigenlayer is a clear telling that there's money to be made in scaling Ethereum, and this is where I presume most of the investor liquidity coming to fund projects on Ethereum is going. I'd be worried when this stops, but not right now.

In some way, what has been built on Ethereum is the ability to have external anchored applications, chains or other products of this kind which benefit from inheriting some level of security from the base layer blockchain.

So who's using this? Users I guess? Right now there may not be enough activity to justify the price increasing, as Ethereum being saturated in some way equates to 'cash flows'. Right now, given that the future of Ethereum's L2 and base layer explosive activity is 'on pause' as the upgrade just kicked in earlier this year, it is hard for investors estimate the value of those cash flows.

For BTC, the expectation that Bitcoin (the blockchain) will make any changes to itself in order to accomodate new featuresets is pretty much non-existent. On Ethereum, the fact that the base layer can be upgraded and changed allows for new concepts to emerge, for current concepts to be improved, etc. So Ethereum is inherently dependent on the combination of upgrades and activity improving its future cash flows (fees from on-chain activity). Right now, this is lackluster or inconsistent, so once this activity starts kicking in, which might depend or not on price, the consistency of those cash flows will be more visible.

Basically, It's hard to justify investing large amounts of capital in a peer-to-peer network native currency when there's not enough certainty about its future cash flows. Before the upgrade such a comparatively meaningless amount of activity would saturate the chain that future cash flows were 'easier to expect'.

I think there's several reasons why BTC is outperforming ETH this year:

Historically this is the pattern in bullish periods (BTC outperforms, then it doesn't)
The BTC ETFs started trading earlier in the year, when the war in the middle east wasn't at its absolute height of explosiveness, when the economy had a better outlook because the high interest rates hadn't affected the US job market, the profitability of the carry trade etc, etc. There's many macroeconomic reasons we can point out, but back in early 2024, things looked WAY better than now even when plenty of banks had collapsed the year prior due to high interest rates. They don't look that bad now, but the outlook was very bleak during the summer.
The ETH ETFs were a complete uncertainty, now they're a reality, but they started trading in quite literally the weakest moment in the market of this year.
Network activity on Ethereum has apparently subsided significantly (not really, but this is what it would seem like to the untrained eye, this is related to what I explained in the post)
BTC is simply more popular not only due to its brand name, that too, but very importantly because it is a very static, unchanging asset with very little medium-term uncertainty, akin to gold. Which is something investors like. ETH is more uncertain.
BTC seems to have no competition, ETH seems to have competition, even if it really doesn't.

You'd really have to be really deep into the rabbit hole to understand the value of ETH and the Ethereum blockchain beyond the surface-level perspective an investor trading many many assets in a traditional sense would have. Many traders trade based on cash flows and certainty of cash flows, and Ethereum carries some uncertainty with it and is having a 'weak' year in terms of cash flows.

I won't get into why SOL is outperforming ETH in any meaningful level of detail, but in short, from my perspective:

the hype around memecoins (expectation of cash flows drives liquidity seeking returns in large numbers)
the fact that it's a smaller marketcap asset
the price is lower and you can buy 'a whole unit of it'
there's apparent activity on it
it's boosted by entities that want to pump the shit out of it to seek exit liquidity
it has a lot of marketing due to the previous point
it has provided extraordinary returns this year, so there's expectation that this will keep on happening
most of the supply is held by entities that don't sell it (large stakers and node operators which additionally receive most of the inflation)
etc etc

If anyone reads this wall of text pls correct me if you find any flaws in my reasoning. I hope it helps some have some perspective as to why I believe ETH's performance this year has been lackluster comparatively to other assets.

Edit: small tweaks, typo fixes and corrected some term precision (I try not to use ETH and Ethereum interchangeably, as ETH is the asset and Ethereum is the network)

u/growthepie_eth brings us a layer 2 ecosystem update

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g7rawa/daily_general_discussion_october_20_2024/lsu9p98/)

Layer 2 Update - growthepie

Sorry I haven't been as active lately IRL sometimes gets in the way but I'm back with a longer L2 update to try and cover everything I have missed.

Layer 2s are growing so fast they have normalized All Time Highs
Layer 2s have more value locked in ETH than Stablecoins
Layer 2 Stablecoins have grown the equivalent of a small country's GDP this year:
Base Fees spiked to 20 cents largely due to PRIME
Base Throughput continues to be raised weekly
Layer 2 DeFi Transaction Count is on the rise
Metis Active Addresses reach All Time High
Optimism Transaction count on the rise
Arbitrum seeing Gas Fee spikes for NFT usage
Taiko Transaction Count makes a strong recovery putting them back in 2nd place
Base multi-chain activity is trending downwards while others are increasing
You can now compare onchain Economics on our Economics page
Scroll hits a new all-time high on Transaction counts and Throughput (airdrop season)
Layer 2 token transfers (the simplest of transactions) approaching a new all time high
Weekly Active Addresses continue to remain strong
Blobs have burned over 1,000 ETH - with Base having the highest ratio of blob costs for the year
New report by Coinbase "Guide to Crypto Markets: Q4 2024" featuring Ethereum and Layer 2s favorably
Mantle and Scroll TVL are both on the rise and battling to beat each other
We continue to track more Layer 2s, adding Derive and Oderly with more to come
Reminder if you need to find an address use our labels page search feature (we are adding Ethereum L1 soon too)
Base on track to double the Throughput of the whole layer 2 ecosystem in less than a year
We had some great Gitcoin rounds thanks to all that donated - small donations make a big difference
growthepie is now active in onchain governance - currently for ZKsync, Arbitrum and Optimisum (more on the way) please consider delegating to us
We have improved our zoom feature
Layer 2 TVL measured in ETH is up only
Blobs have seen spikes in the past but not so much in the past 90 days with us approaching the target is this going to change?
Ethereum doesn't have problems - Ethereum has improvements waiting to be implemented... Layer 2s are part of the solution
Reminder to compare Layer 2s use our single chain pages and use the compare feature
Over half of the Layer 2s we cover are "General Purpose" and they account for 97.9% of weekly active addresses
Vitalik highlights Optimism in working on chain neutral Crosschain interfaces
Layer 2s have used ~280 GB of blobs this year- Low L2 fees are less than a year old the space is young

Hit me up with any Layer 2 questions or observations and I will do my best to get back to you!

Side note we also released new Octant Funding Tracker metrics so be sure to check them out and get involved in the latest round (we are not participating as we missed out on getting selected but we are tracking all the amazing projects that got through)

u/benido2030 briefs us on our community Scroll delegate u/defewit

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g8i1bx/daily_general_discussion_october_21_2024/lsyyrsz/)

gm!

Scroll snapshot was on Saturday and I think the airdrop happens tomorrow. For the last two weeks we have been searching for a community delegate and u/defewit is willing to represent the us in the Scroll ecosystem, thank you for that! I think it's been possible to set up a delegate profile since a few days, have you done that alreaady? If so, would you share it here, so we can link it tomorrow?

Also if there is a second delegate that would be beautiful. I think it's always easier and better if there are two people that know each other (at least a little bit) to discuss things in private first, then post either on the governance forum or ask for feedback here. So any second member willing to do this, happy to share your profile tomorrow as well!

u/supephiz introduces us to the Ephemery testnet

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g9aee7/daily_general_discussion_october_22_2024/lt7mw0j/)

Depending on how long you've been around, you may or may not know that I got popular in Ethereum by creating early video guides showing how to spin up validators on testnets.

Well, the ephemery testnet is very exciting to me, and on Thursday, 10/24, I'm planning to release a video guide showing how to create a validator on it.

Ephemery is a re-generating short-lived testnet designed for testing, especially for people who want to stake. The testnet resets every 28 days, and all of the unused Ether is recycled. (My current understanding is that if you're running an active validator you can keep that 32 Ether in the new instance.)

EthStaker recently hosted a call with Ephemery developers and now I'm excited about sharing a video guide to help people get a validator running on it. it IS getting polished, but right now there's still a fair barrier of experience to getting on it.

I think the most exciting thing for me is the opportunity to play slashing games without any fear of consequences. I hope you'll join me :)

u/696_eth brings us the EVMavericks weekly recap

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g9aee7/daily_general_discussion_october_22_2024/lt4sf0a/)

Your weekly EVMavericks catch-up: highlights of the week!

Octant's Epoch 5 allocation window has started and runs till October 27th. If you have GLM staked, please support Doots and Aestus
Weekly Doots produces another episode of Doots - #83 - featuring James from Octant
Get to know our next EVMavericks - eleusys
Creators share: Ben Meadow's first Gamma Print was displayed in Bali. Cyber Sea's Deus Ex Machina was exhibited in museum in Amsterdam!
Luuk starts a discussion about biggest 2025 Ethereum related events in USA or nearby. So far we have:

ETH Denver, from Feb 27 - Mar 2 (with Buidl Week Feb 23-26)

Permissionless Probably October 2025

Consensus (may 14- 16 2025) Toronto CANADA
Degen chat this week: animal pictures from Luuk's trip, mentions of Vitalik and how he deals with memecoins, some charts & TA, new discord like site - townsxyz (yielddady created a server for EVMavericks), EFP and poaps, memes, food pictures and discussions, some memecoin alpha too & more!
Farmers are a little bit over the place but main focus has been on scroll.
Our memecoins warriors keep going. This is where we have the most money making alpha right now. Some of the top calls of the week
More bullish chatter from people in the #daily-discussion. Some TA & long form posts. Shoutout to Erowind for bringing top quality content there!
Also if anyone knows Spanish and wants to speak on our behalf and represent our community with NacionBankless then please ping 696!

Lastly, your weekly security reminder: here are a few guides!

EVMavericks discord has a security channel. You can literally mute everything else but that channel and only get notifications from there.
Reminder for all the folks: we have a daily-discussion channel in the discord that's open to public and there's a decent amount of activity there!

u/interweaver discusses the difference between price and value

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ga2kk9/daily_general_discussion_october_23_2024/ltgiqcy/)

It is fascinating to me how many people, here and elsewhere, still haven't realized that price and value are two separate concepts, only extremely loosely bound by the collective (un)intelligence of the market.

On the one hand, this means that poor price performance does not, and should not, imply anything about the fundamental value of something. Many r/ethwhinance posters make that mistake: they see Eth the asset performing badly compared to other (cherry-picked) assets on certain (cherry-picked) timelines, and feel the need to build a (counterfactual) narrative about how Ethereum the platform must therefore be falling behind on most fundamental metrics.

On the other hand, it means that even outstanding fundamental value does not guarantee anything about price performance on any particular timeline. Many bull posters here, myself included, have fallen into this trap: assuming that Ethereum's stellar fundamentals mean we will see good price performance in the near/medium-term future. This is equally a logical misstep; the most innately valuable asset in the world can be sold for precisely $0 if nobody understands why it should be valued.

Arguments will be made about how the "markets are efficient" and that price and value should be tightly coupled, but I will emphatically suggest that at least in the realm of crypto, the markets and their participants have been and remain to this day, in overwhelming majority, catastrophically ignorant. This will change in time, but I'm increasingly realizing that this time will be measured in decades, not in months or years.

If you can avoid the trap of assuming a timely or intelligent linkage between price and value in either direction, you will save yourself needless hand-wringing, avoid getting your hopes up prematurely, and perhaps (if you are still in a position to be patient and stay informed) realize the opportunity this massive informational asymmetry still presents, years and years after we first started noticing it.

Probably the most fundamental assumption of investing (as opposed to gambling) is the proposition that eventually, over some arbitrarily long timeframe, markets do finally realize what's up, and price does synchronize with value. And when that happens, those of us who didn't give up on Ethereum because the ignorant markets were ignoring Ether, and yet who also didn't let all the bull posts convince us to take unwise risks and were therefore able to stay in the game long-term - when that happens, we will be very, very happy.

u/NextLevelFantasy introduces the latest Gitcoin grant round to us

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ga2kk9/daily_general_discussion_october_23_2024/lteoyup/)

GG22 is live and the donation window is open for 2 weeks. Over $1.4M in matching funds so make sure your Passport.xyz score is updated. Enjoy the perpetual vibes in the 24/7 Let's GROW Live twitter space and Gitcoin is hosting spaces as well.

Gitcoin Open Source Software Rounds

Dev Tooling
Web3 Infrastructure
dApps and Apps
Hackathon Alumni

Community Rounds

Land Regenerators: Ma Earth Grants Round 2
ENS Ecosystem
BioFi Pathfinders
Growing the Public Gardens
Allo Builders Advancement
Regen Citizens Genesis
Youth in Need

#83: October 18, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g6ag98/comment/lshdxxq/)

Ethereum

$2619.12

u/hanniabu

0.03861

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g2ial1/comment/lrsw7yi/)

Until next price hike,

Community stays dreamlike,

All around hitchhike.

Shitpost of the week: u/15kisFUD

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g38jps/comment/lrwclrt/)

What happened, did the ETF get approved?

u/benido2030 has some thoughts on the unichain then u/hereimalive brings thier own Unichain question

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g127sk/comment/lrdnpgo/)

u/benido2030:

Some thoughts about the unichain announcement. Now if that means fees go down, that's obviously good. If that means that more value goes to L2s that probably also good, even if it fragments stuff in the beginning. In the end, that's one more step towards onchain price discovery.

What I think is interesting is what this means for Max Resnicks thesis. Uniswap is like 40% of defi (and the other 40% being AAVE, 20% long tail) and if that moves to an L2, the whole "L1 is for defi" argument is kind of obsolete. I don't think this is just a L1 fee decision, this is more control of the product (e.g. block times) and value capture. "Defi" just moved off L1. If I understand things correctly, AAVE v4 is also building towards that, they are just not building their own chain, but bridges between all L2 markets to create one bug liquidity pool.

There's 2 more things we need, abstracting chains away for the user and fix fragmentation of liquidity. And then this whole discussion is hopefully over.

https://www.theblock.co/post/321407/italy-capital-gains-tax-bitcoin

u/hereimalive:

If Unichain is an Ethereum L2 why is it so bad that can tank the price of it?

You guys are making me afraid.

u/somedaysitsdark isn't feeling concern for the burn

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g127sk/comment/lrf4y2o/)

I'm real tired of hearing that ETH is fucked because free blobs are temporarily affecting the burn, as though the burn is the only thing that drives the value of ETH.

Do any other cryptos even have a burn mechanism? Lmao. Guess everyone is fucked.

u/eth10kIsFUD is doing the math after yesterday's conversation

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g127sk/comment/lrf6ons/)

u/cryptOwOcurrency started a great discussion yesterday around Bitcoin security budget with the question: When will it break? Let's try to do some napkin maths:

Bitcoin paid $27m to miners yesterday. 97% of this was issuance. The marketcap secured by this is around $1.2T. On a relative basis that is 27/1.2= $22m of security per day for every Trillion USD Mcap.

In less than four years that will be $11m of security per day for every Trillion USD Mcap. $6m in 8 years.

At $6m per day that's around $2.2b of economic security per year per Trillion. Industrial miners are generally looking to ROI in less than a year on their hardware investment, so let's assume the cost of the hardware deployed to earn this $2.2b is around $2.2b. This 1 year ROI is also close to what is observed on the network today using the numbers estimated by Justin Drake in this tweet ($17.5 per TH/s): https://x.com/drakefjustin/status/1763632918994260481

This gives an attacker a price of around $2.2b in hardware spent per Trillion USD in Bitcoin marketcap to achieve 51% of network power in 8 years time. Not taking into consideration the large economies of scale advantage an attacker would get. Coinglass currently shows a 24h BTC Puts options volume of around $1b at a current mcap of $1.2T so getting a short position that could capitalize on the attack seems very doable.

Even if Bitcoin's price 10x's within the next 8 years ($12T mcap) that would put the total price of attack at $26b. Around 80 individuals on the forbes list currently has this amount on their own. For nation states this is still peanuts. And could most likely be made profitable by any group amassing this amount of capital. At this mcap MicroStrategy's holdings alone would be worth around 6x this amount.

Bitcoin in it's current state will not be secure in 8 years. Markets are forward looking, I believe we'll see serious infighting in 4 years.

The iceberg is straight ahead and the captain has left the ship.

u/Itur_ad_Astra Let's assume that ETH continues to crab indefinitely ...

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g2ial1/daily_general_discussion_october_13_2024/lrrgzpq/)

Let's assume that ETH continues to crab indefinitely, while other crypto, bitcoin, stocks, and real estate keep climbing, and inflation means that everything not going up is losing value.

How many months/years/decades would you keep holding? Would you still be holding In December 2026 if the price is $2600? Would you still be holding in May 2029 if the price is $2400? What if it's 2031 and ETH is ranked #4 or #5 on marketcap with Solana or Tron or Sui or Cardano (lol) being higher?

Staking has enough APY to keep me satisfied for now, and I still think there's gonna be a bull eventually, but it's been years since a proper bull run and it's making me sad. Everything else in my (extremely ETH heavy) portfolio is outperforming. The price is low enough that I should be DCAing, since I've said before that this is what I do sub $2500, but for this month, I'll just consider not selling my monthly staking proceeds as my "DCA".

I do think election week and January are going to be very telling on crypto and Ethereum's medium term price action, and I am going to have to reassess my long term plan after that. But I suspect I'm gonna be doing this holding thing for another couple of years.

u/goobergal97 It would pretty bizarre for ETH to be in this range into 2030

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g2ial1/daily_general_discussion_october_13_2024/lrrvlqx/)

It would pretty bizarre for ETH to be in this range into 2030. It will either break up or down by then and considering the competition doesn't stack up in a variety of ways I'm still betting on it breaking up. In TA terms we've really only been crabbing since March of this year. I know when we look at last cycles PA it's like, "why haven't we broken our ATH yet..." but it's just ETHs beta being higher relative to BTC. We're catching the downside volatility right now but later in this cycle I suspect it we'll catch that beta with positive price action and vastly outperform by this time next year.

Last cycle ETH put in roughly 6,000% gains from cycle bottom to top. 1/10th of that price performance gets ETH to ~6k, 1/5th gets it to ~12k. I think even with diminishing returns things look bright for us. 1/5th isn't even the limit, 1/3rd is even possible imo which would take ETH to ~20k.

Expecting 5 figure ETH is realistic this cycle.

u/SplinterCole is so fatigued of crypto stuff; but drops a list of DeFi things they are using often

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g2ial1/daily_general_discussion_october_13_2024/lrovjs7/)

Im so fatigued of crypto stuff, that the last "farming" i did was to diversify my eth into different lrst.
Now that im only waiting for swell and diva/nectar im feeling glad its over so to speak.
I missed the OP #5 airdrop and will miss scroll and linea etc, just because i couldnt get myself to keep getting farmed.

After years in crypto and defi, there is currently built 2 things im using often as a non whale LP´er and ponzi yield farmer.

1.Sportsbetting has become competitive with the best bookies, and betting without middlemen from your wallet is amazing, shoutout to all teams working on this, in my experience SXbet ,Thales/Overtimemarkets.xyz, Azuro/bookmaker.xyz has everything i need as a casual bettor.

2.Gnosispay Visa card is next level awesome imo. Getting 4% cashback on my spending, and be able to just put € into my gnosissafe adress and spend is amazing.

(3,4) honorable *biased *mentions should be my heavy bags of SNX and WINR, SNX because they have started a work on renewing to hopefully be relevant in defi again after getting left behind in innovation and token price at all time low.
WINR because they seemingly try to take gambling completely onchain+ give users option to single side LP in the pools that are +EV for the house

Warm welcome to u/alexiskef's wife u/AL_FruFru who has a question from her online crypto course about BTC scripts

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g405r7/daily_general_discussion_october_15_2024/ls0lsd1/)

My wife, who is doing an online course on crypto (yes!), just asked my help in understanding the "Value-blindness" part of the following part of her studying material:

The 2014 Ethereum whitepaper by Vitalik Buterin, the founder, identified key limitations in Bitcoin's scripting capabilities:

Lack of Turing-completeness: Bitcoin's scripting language is not Turing-complete, it can’t perform all possible computational operations.
Value-blindness: Bitcoin scripts cannot natively assess the value of transactions.
Lack of state: Bitcoin lacks a mechanism to track and store the state of complex applications.
Blockchain-blindness: Bitcoin scripts have limited ability to interact with or understand blockchain data beyond simple transaction details.

Ethereum was designed to overcome these limitations and to address the need for creating new blockchains for different functionalities.

I told her I know some super-friendly people who'll def help!

u/AL_FruFru

u/aaj094 Italy is increasing capital gains tax on crypto (26% to 42%)

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g4roxi/daily_general_discussion_october_16_2024/ls7ze40/)

Italy is increasing capital gains tax on crypto in particular from 26% to 42%.

u/ProfessionalNoiseX Radiant capital exploited.revoke all radiant contract addresses as a safety measure, ASAP

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g4roxi/daily_general_discussion_october_16_2024/ls9ak70/)

https://x.com/0xShual/status/1846607303136423938

rip a lot of money

revoke all radiant contract addresses as a safety measure, ASAP

0xF4B1486DD74D07706052A33d31d7c0AAFD0659E1 arb
0xd50Cf00b6e600Dd036Ba8eF475677d816d6c4281 bsc
0x30798cFe2CCa822321ceed7e6085e633aAbC492F base

Radiant capital exploited a couple hours ago. Revoke your approvals on Arbitrum/Base/BSC if you are still in time.

#82: October 11, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g127sk/comment/lrda7qt/)

Ethereum

$2400.01

0.03972

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g0bcb1/daily_general_discussion_october_10_2024/lrblksi/)

SEC turns cold,

Another story gets told,

The issuer won't fold.

Shitpost of the week: u/Itur_ad_Astra

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fzjust/comment/lr491lj/)

You know what the ETH graph reminds me of? Definitely not a crab.

A Crab Market would be a stable unmoving price, progressing the graph in a flat line to the left. Maybe with equal up/down slow waves. But the current action is much more annoying.

Have you noticed snails exploring their surroundings using their eye tentacles? They slowly extend them, touch something, and then rapidly retract them back.

That's what ETH does. Every time it slowly probes a few USD above its price, it rapidly withdraws back in fear. As if hit by electricity. Slow candle up, instant withdrawal back down. Especially funny in the one-minute chart, but it can be seen in all time-frames.

So I officially propose that we are in a Snail Market. 🐌

I might need sleep.

u/haurog brings Vitaliks talk from Token2049

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fv071m/comment/lq3nd6h/)

For those who missed it or could not understand anything in the shaky videos that were available until just a few days ago, Vitaliks famous talk from Token2049 is now on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpOSqLjYb0o&list=PLvSllGeSAEeeFUUcy7kKk0VIs4YNDhspY

He is asking himself if we are still early and what he is excited about in the next 10 years. He thinks we are not early anymore, but we are still early for crypto being useful. He ties this into his experiences paying with crypto for daily necessities and why it failed originally. Hint, it was the fees and the overall user experience (UX). In the last years to UX improved massively due to EIP1559 and the the switch to POS. The recent dencun upgrade introduced blobs which dropped the fees to close to zero. Before all these improvements, the underlying technology was limiting what could be built on top and how successful it could become. These limitations are not the bottleneck anymore, but we still need a reason to actually use the applications built on crypto. He argues that the resilience and robustness of the underlying blockchain is what matters the most, but the UX on top needs to be good as well. Preserving the underlying advantages of the Ethereum network and being able to improve the UX for mainstream users should be the key goal. He sees a few places where there will be the most improvements in the next years.

Wallet tradeoffs and how multisigs, guardians and the combination with zkproofs have or will improve that space. This allows web2 UX with web3 robustness.
Social media where you actually own the account (warpcast).
Payment wallets which are getting close to venmo experience.
Privacy pools were you can proof to not be the bad guy without revealing who you are. This exists in an early version at least.
Zk proofs in social media will make it possible to proof that you fullfill certain criterias without revealing who you are.
L1 improvements: Single slot finality, verkle trees (statelessness), handling MEV on the protocol level, ZK snarkifying the L1 and light clients

These improvements will allow Ethereum to thread the needle and become mainstream user friendly while staying true to the underlying cypherpunk values which built the network.

But enough beating around the bush. The only reason this talk has become famous is Vitaliks singing session in the middle of it. Here they are together with the original songs. Especially the second song took my some time to find a source.

Laputa ending song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdpEnkcT7Io Vitaliks interpretation: https://youtu.be/JpOSqLjYb0o?feature=shared&t=678

Kryp Tina song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdrSP0V-KLg Vitaliks rendition: https://youtu.be/JpOSqLjYb0o?feature=shared&t=829

I am happy that Vitalik did not become a singer, but I am even more happy he is as quirky as he is.

u/PhiMarHal is humbly begging for scraps of your attention

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fv071m/comment/lq69vwf/)

I'm confident the Scroll airdrop snapshot was already taken.

Why, you ask? Simple: for the past few months, I've been toying with a small dapp idea. A collaborative story where everyone writes together and mints NFTs by writing. I'm enthralled by the concept, and I figure I could lure some of you fine gentlemen into my lair by alluding, not so subtly, that any sort of activity on Scroll could help qualify for a big fat airdrop.

But then, something terrible happened. You see, I started using AI. Claude Sonnet 3.5 specifically.

As someone who's not a coder, the whole process of building anything with code usually goes like:

have a good time writing actual code for a couple hours
then hit a roadblock on something arcane related to programming
then be forced into the most tedious websearch adventure for a solution to this problem

And those roadblocks happen dozens of times.

None of that anymore. Claude is always there to give an answer, always available to suggest something. We talk it out and eventually figure out the thing. The good lad never gets tired of my walls of text.

This is the terrible part. I started Having Fun.

And when you enjoy the process, you start spending more time refining everything to your liking.

It went on and on and what do you know, now we're in October. Rumors abound TGE is soon. Scroll 1 year anniversary is coming up in mid October. Hints everywhere the eye can see.

Instead of coming to you all with a cheeky smile and an airdrop nudge nudge wink wink, I am here hat in hand, on my knees, humbly begging for scraps of your attention.

Please, kind sir, may you take a look at my dapp?

It's a good dapp. I promise. Maybe.

I wrote some about what it actually is here: Blog Link

Frontend Link

In all seriousness, I find it incredible just how far you can get with AI. I didn't write any code here. All it takes is a bit of persistence. We're moving fast into a world where everyone can make their own toys exactly to their liking by chatting up a virtual assistant. If you have ideas you want to see happen and time to spend, there's very little to stop you.

u/haurog shares his take on Lido's Community Staking Module

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fvrhxr/daily_general_discussion_october_4_2024/lq9wpa6/)

Financially for node operators it is a great product. Lido tries everything to get people on board. If you are on their early adoption whitelist they even allow for a lower bond for the first share, increasing the rewards even further. As far as I see pretty much anyone running a node anywhere is on the list (20k-30k) addresses. They also are present pretty much everywhere to advertise the start of the CSM. As far as I see they limit the shares to 12 for each node operator, which means even under the most optimistic assumptions the amount of ETH the solo node operators will handle will be at most be in the single digit percentage of the whole validators Lido has. It is a good development, but will not change the validator distribution setup within Lido to any meaningful degree.

On a more personal opinion I try to stay as far away as possible from Lido as they have a massive war chest and a lot of influential people on their pay roll. They can undercut the competition for very long to make sure none other staking solution survives. Their initial plan of cross-subsidicing the CSM with revenue from their more centralized staking business was a pretty direct attack on the current solo staker landscape. Not sure of they changed this though. Their history of gaslighting the solo staker community and claiming them to be 'irrational actors' massively soured my opinion. They way they plan to centralize the Ethereum staking under their umbrella and even calling it decentralized, does not help in making me more sympathetic towards them. In the long run I think they are a massive problem for the Ethereum network and I really hope we can keep them from taking over the staking layer.

The sad reality is that there is very little decentralized competition. Rocketpool still is the only properly decentralized solution. They are much smaller, they are in the middle of a year long change in how much bond their stakers need. In a few weeks we might see the first rocketpool minipool without the need to stake RPL. They just have the first one running on testnet (as of 3 hours ago). I have great hopes that this will be competitive in the long run, but as always with rocketpool it will take some time. An interesting project is Nodeset which is planned to launch soon will be interesting to watch, it is built atop of rocketpool and adds a very soft kyc layer for node operators. Bonds are lower than with rocketpool and no RPL is needed. Another project called Diva which was all the rage last summer (2023) still does not have a fully functioning prototype. Their testnet stopped accepting new node operators after they found some bugs. We will see what will come out of it in months to come. Puffer might be interesting as well, but to be honest I have no idea about the details.

u/Gumpa-Bucky reflects in light of their crypto anniversary month

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fwivoc/daily_general_discussion_october_5_2024/lqh06d2/)

October is my crypto anniversary month, I thought I would mark it by sharing my ETH journey story with fellow ethfinanciers. At least it is something to read in the low comment weekend.

In October 2013, I bought my first Bitcoin, on the advice of my millennial son, who explained blockchain basics and suggested that BTC's value--about $170 at the time--could go up. After a mini- DCA spree for a year, I got busy with work and stopped paying attention until October 2016 when I read somewhere about ethereum and smart contracts. I thought that was pretty cool. I went on to get my first ETH in 2016, first ledger in 2017, and as prices rose, I cashed out my original fiat investment.

Unfortunately in 2017-2018 a slower work period gave me too much free time so I started trading a bunch with the remaining house money. For a while I got into Vechain and LINK, though fortunately I kept a majority of my portfolio in ETH and BTC. After painful IRS interactions and a desire for simplicity, I decided to abandon all frills and reduced down to just BTC and ETH by 2021.

I went on to launch my first RP minipool (through Allnodes) in late 2021 but sold my RPL and further simplified to vanilla staking last year. I periodically toy with the idea of home staking (and even got an early Proteus to do so), but my frequent travels and lack of confidence have kept me from it so far.

I am in the minority of ethfinanciers who have already achieved retirement the old-fashioned way. My stage in life gives me a different perspective on holding and exiting, and my ETH goal is not to get life-changing money, but rather to be a supporter of this important new technology, to keep my brain active by following its evolution, to use staking income to upgrade my retirement life, and to safely pass a valuable asset on to my grandkids as a hedge against the uncertain world they are growing into.

I discovered r/ethfinance in late 2021 and have truly enjoyed learning from all of you. I am pretty sure I have read and upvoted >95% of the dailies. I mostly lurk but I am proud of my EVM lion and few doots (though no one IRL knows about any of that!). I greatly appreciate the effective moderation and community spirit of volunteerism. For me, this sub also is where I got introduced to the linguistics of social media. So I thank all of you for what you have contributed to my education! I was really hoping to go to Hodlercon this year but I have a hard schedule conflict, so maybe 2026...

u/EggIll7227 discusses Ethereum's normie narratives

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fx9170/daily_general_discussion_october_6_2024/lqn4a7r/)

My normie-friendly TikTok influencer account is getting lots of traction recently, as my subscribers count breached 2200 (I am catering to 8 millions French Canadians, so it's a decent following in my niche market). It's an education, not monetized, no-shilling-allowed account.

I have learned a few lessons since January, when I launched it.

First : simplicity is king. If your narrative can't be explained in a single, easy to understand sentence, it won't catch up. This is why I am skeptical of things like "triple points asset", "programmable money" and "digital bond".

What is sticking is : "Ethereum is a decentralized AppStore that anybody can use or deploy on, and you need to pay in ether to use it."

Maybe it's not technicaly accurate, but this is what people understand.

Second : most people see crypto as a way to get rich, not as a technology. This explains the bottoming ratio : in their eyes, Ethereum is the second cryptocurrency. People like to bet on champions, not on runner-ups. The Flippening is a nice meme, and I would love to see it happen, but realisticaly, it won't ever happen.

Third : a lot of people are still interested in this space. It will take time, probably a few years, but we will have another mania phase.

That being said, I am trying very hard to teach people about the non-speculative parts of crypto, namely decentralized social media and digital artworks. They don't care, but I am still trying.

u/eth2353 summarises the current homestaker debate and u/supephiz weighs in on the situation

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fxzz7t/daily_general_discussion_october_7_2024/lqqwrja/)

u/eth2353:

There's been some discussion about the hardware and network requirements for Ethereum validators. Obviously maximum decentralization is the goal, but at the same time Ethereum can't scale if we want to let everyone with a Raspberry Pi and a 1Mbps internet connection (exaggerating here) participate. I believe the discussion was initially triggered by someone who missed their block proposal, likely due to not having enough upload bandwidth.

The issue is, noone has defined where the line is - what are the minimum requirements that still allow you to fully participate in validation of the chain as well as proposing blocks, and what should they be into the future.

The current outcomes of this discussion:

a survey in r/ethstaker among home stakers to get a better picture of what hardware and network current stakers have available to them.
Toni from the EF put together some numbers on local block building and the effects that blobs have had on it.
ethereum/execution-apis#559 - a new API endpoint engine_getBlobsV1 that will help local block building since the proposer won't necessarily have to publish the blobs too. Attesters to the block can simply get the blobs from their own EL client's blob pool if the proposer doesn't manage to publish them quickly enough.

All of this discussion is pretty relevant right now since there's been talks of increasing the blob count in the upcoming Pectra fork(s). It's important to note this would be in combination with EIP-7623 which greatly decreases the worst-case size of a block.

I personally feel that a slight increase (as suggested in the linked comment) would be okay provided the teams also manage to ship the new engine_getBlobsV1 API endpoint. Good news is, Reth and Besu already support it, Geth has a PR open and Nethermind has a PR merged ~~and I believe it should not be hard for other EL clients to add~~.

u/supephiz:

If this were just about building the robust and decentralized smart contract platform we'd be sailing, but the inclusion of a financial reward means that other projects want a piece of the pie. Other projects aren't able to match Ethereum on technical grounds, so they chip away at our social infrastructure, planting seeds of doubt and conflict with the knowledge that a small percent of Ethereum participants will shed away looking for other projects that might be a "more lucrative investment".

I think the best route here is for us to continue decentralizing by onboarding people who are looking for investments in smart contract platforms, I imagine that over time it'll continue to look like "if you can't beat them, join them" with Ethereum being the victor.

People who have been around a long time might realize that, while the attacks are changing in nature, they seem to be less of an existential threat and more of an annoyance every day.

If I were to characterize these threats, I'd say that threat actors used to attack head on, but now they feel like they're working for clout inside the ecosystem and likely even working within Ethereum while getting funded by adversarial enterprise.

u/CaptainLoud is looking for some app feedback

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fxzz7t/daily_general_discussion_october_7_2024/lqs92yt/)

Looking for feedback

Since my app Boasty didn't see any usage or traction, I decided to stop building features and leave it as is. It remains fully functional and you can still schedule posts on Ethereum. It was a great learning experience.

I thought about the "Pay 1 USDC to do X" hook and came up with a game concept: A prize pool (smart contract) is seeded every day with say 10 or 100 USDC, you play a browser 2D shooter game, and you can submit your high score for a chance to win the whole thing. High scores would be hidden until reveal, then whoever has the highest score gets the payout automatically via smart contract.

So i built etherglide.net, a PoC of a futuristic 2D space shooter with cyberpunk styling and lore. Game features:

Use WASD to move Zephyr to avoid obstacles and collect powerups
Left mouse click to shoot projectiles and destroy enemy crafts for extra points
Collect ETH to recharge your ammo
Collect a speed powerup for a 10 second speed boost
The game increases difficulty by increasing the maximum speed and number of obstacles
Connect your wallet and sign a message to submit a high score to the leaderboard
Game music and cool pew pew pew sounds!

I am looking for feedback for the concept and game itself. Currently working on the smart contract and more game features (boss fights and gravity mechanics), but wanted to test the waters before sinking too much time into it. Please try it and let me know what you think!

u/HSuke educates us on full-reserve banking

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fys4ny/daily_general_discussion_october_8_2024/lqydx7x/)

####Why not Full Reserve Banking?

I was thinking about what would happen if countries switched over to full reserve banking. What would the effects be?

Currently, there isn't a single country that does full-reserve banking. It would greatly contract the economy, and most global companies, VC funding, and innovation would move elsewhere where they can get cheaper loans. It's self-sacrificing idea.

Historically, every country has been on a fractional reserve system since banks and loans existed. Banks can lend out a portion of their customer's deposits to use towards other people's loans. If too many loans defaulted or there were a bank run, the bank would close. Centralized reserves were then invented to handle mass bank runs during times of panic. And overall, strong central banks, when combined with the power to expand money supply, have been extremely successful in preventing mass bank runs. Keep in mind that strong central banks did not exist in the US before the 1940s.

While depressions were extremely common and occurred about every 30 years post-feudalism and before central banks could expand money supply, there hasn't been one since central banks gained that power after the 1930s.

The Silver Standard, Gold Standard, Brent-Wood system, and Fiat systems all used fractional reserve banking. Of those systems, only fiat system could handle nation-wide full reserve banking. The other systems would all fail if the economy grew or contracted because it would not be possible to expand and contract money supply under both a full reserve system and a commodity standard.

What would happen to banks under full reserve?

Banks would stop loaning because they can no longer use customer deposits like checkings/savings/CDs for loans
Banks would would charge small fees for checkings/savings accounts.
Many bank locations would close down, and banks would go online
The central bank reserve would no longer be needed and can safely close. Or maybe it's still needed to bail out the separate loan industry ...

Where would loans go?

Loans would simply move from banks to peer-to-peer lending industries like Prosper and Funding Circle
Loan intererest rates would shoot up another 5-10%, and mortgages would become even less affordable
Homes would be less of an investment and more of an ongoing cost (like they are in Japan)
There would be a lot more buying expensive things without loans
Overall, the economy would shrink maybe 50-90%, and domestic investments in general would plummet
Many companies would move abroad to other countries where they can get cheap loans
VC and innovation would move abroad to other countries.
Many loans would move abroad to other countries that are still under partial-reserve systems
Any country that goes full reserve would fall behind other countries.

What happens during a financial crisis when people aren't able to pay back loans?

Banks would be perfectly fine since they're no longer involved
The loan industry would collapse or fall back to their insurers. Many lenders would default.
The government may decide to create a central reserve to insure loan agencies
The government may bail out loan agencies and insurers that are too big to fail. Or maybe they won't and just be ok with letting a section of the economy collapse.
Anyone who doesn't lend or get loans would be mostly fine and unaffected.
The financial crisis would be smaller than under partial-reserve

Overall, switching from partial-reserve to full-reserve just migrates failures from banks to the loan industry and causes interest rates to shoot up because customer deposits can't be used. It doesn't prevent systemic failures, but it does make them much smaller. The overall economy will also be much smaller.

Consider China's Evergrande and housing collapse, which is a lot closer to a full-reserve collapse since many Chinese homeowners buy houses in cash. China just let those companies fail and those homeowners lose their deposits. The economy contracted greatly. Some municipals were to close to unrest and insurrection, but because China has a strong government, local governments were able to suppress protests. Overall, the damage was limited.

u/LogrisTheBard is following the white rabbit and you can too

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fzjust/comment/lr60i0j/)

The next section of my Rabbit Hole Explorer's Guide is all about crypto etiquette.

Your Crypto is Private

If you go to stock trading forums you'll frequently find people posting pictures of their brokerage account positions showing they either made or lost incredible amounts of money. Reputable crypto forums prohibit that for your safety. The blockchain is public unencrypted information. When you post precise positions and trade times you reveal your address to anyone looking. If I know your address I know not only your current net worth but everything you do in the future. You probably aren't intending to forfeit your financial privacy forever; it makes you a target. It enables more credible spear-phishing and tells the attacker whether you have enough funds to be worth their time. Generally speaking, just keep your crypto dealings private or at least relatively anonymous, especially online.

This is true among friends and family for different reasons. There will come a point in your learning where you discover something exciting in this rabbit hole, the whole thing clicks for you, and you become enthusiastic and want to share this with everyone around you. People around you then think you've joined a cult. It's more than a stereotype; I've seen it many times. Even outside of crypto it's usually recommended to avoid mixing business and pleasure. If someone listens to you and makes money they are rarely going to be grateful to you personally. If they listen and lose money you can easily damage relationships. So don't go shilling your favorite memecoin at your next holiday party with friends and family. As an investment of your energy it just doesn't provide a very good risk adjusted return.

In general, while I encourage everyone to talk about what blockchains can do and the benefits they bring, don't talk your bags. It's one thing to have an conversation about money being a social construct or the outrageous quicks of the banking system. It's quite another to go around making grandiose claims you don't have the means to back up in the moment while telling everyone to buy whatever coin/token you're currently obsessed with. Don't be that annoying guy. If you absolutely can't resist or are obligated to answer because someone directly asks you I recommend you approach the topic like this guy. Your first objective is to dispel misconceptions and ask confounding questions that lead to thought experiments that the person might actually benefit from. Be Socratic. In my experience, the moment a listener perceives even an inkling of self-interest in the topic you will just be another scammer to them. Don't talk your bags, your crypto is private.

Real Help Will Be Public

Given how overwhelmed you might feel at times when exploring something new it's natural that you want to reach out and ask for help. If you do this in web3 on Discord, Twitter, or Reddit in most places the people who will respond to you, especially in DMs, are scammers. Your transaction failed trying to claim funds on whatever.finance? The scammers just see this guy. They can just smell the fresh blood. It's literally their job hunt people like you. Legit people never DM you first. They'd rather answer your question in public so the response is indexed for the next people who search.

If a DM is necessary they will tell you to DM them. Scammers can easily impersonate legit people on social media. If you're on Discord, they can DM you despite not even being on the server you're asking for help from and therefore they are out of reach of the moderators of that protocol. They can use the same image and public alias as the legit person you are talking to. If you're on Twitter they can use a subtly different name but have the same profile picture and pay $10 to have a blue checkmark next to their name. You'll sometimes get two or three different accounts messaging you telling you similar things to make the answer look more credible. The differences are easy to miss, you are frustrated even before they reach you and are willing to try something new to fix the problem, and they'll be readily available and eager to "help" you.

Nothing good will come from their help. They'll try to send you to their help server to file a ticket. They'll try to get you to install some custom wallet into your browser. They'll send you to a website that asks for your private key. They'll tell you there's some manual workaround they will do for you if you just send your ERC-20 to their treasury address. These are all obvious red flags but before you even get there the first red flag is you are using DMs at all. Whenever someone reaches out to you first with any type of directions, it's a red flag. Real help will be public.

Be Careful Who You Trust

Learning in this ecosystem can be frustrating at times. Everywhere you go everyone seems to know more than you about everything from macro economics, to how to read a chart and tell the future, an entire sailors dictionary of jargon from tradfi, to technical specifications of networks that you need a computer science degree to understand. It can all feel frustratingly out of reach but I'll let you in on a secret: most people worth listening to are capable of explaining things in simple enough terms that you can understand it. If you are on their platform and they have all the space and time they need to explain something well yet they aren't making the effort to explain it so you can understand it it could be their goal isn't to be understood by you but rather to sound credible and confident so that you buy whatever they are selling. If you stumble into a conversation between two names that have a lot of followers and they are talking way above your head, you are not yet at a place where it's worth reading whatever that is. If you're outmatched to the degree that you aren't prepared to sus out bullshit you shouldn't be considering buying whatever anyone there is selling.

Generally speaking, your favorite crypto influencer is using you as exit liquidity. If you aren't paying for a product, you are the product. If you can't figure out how they are monetizing your attention, you can still be certain they are. They are monetizing your attention in every way they can. They are getting paid for ad space. They are executing trades before you can so you're always buying at a higher price and selling at a lower price than them if you follow their moves. They need engagement numbers to raise more money from VCs and they need to sustain their token price to keep attention on their project. For all of the above, they need to retain your attention and they will use every cognitive bias at their disposal to do so. People often mistake confidence for aptitude. The loudest voices are those with the strongest incentives not those with the truth. But I will tell you this lesson from cycles past: the most boisterous sounding voices in the crowd have a storied history of imploding a year after you'll first discover them. Be careful who you trust.

u/breeezyyyy lays out the common framework

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g0bcb1/comment/lr9u3om/)

A common framework I like to use to think about my investments [rightly, or wrongly, please feel free to critque].

Cash: cash is cash. The dollar is continuously being weakened, but it's important to have cash as a buffer/layer of safety or to buy large dips. [3-5% Yield]

Stocks: The stock market has been absolutely ripping over the last decade. Important to DCA into stocks on a regular basis, but it's never going to give you insane upside unless you pick a winner like Nvidia or Tesla and average in over a long period. [8-12% Yield]

Real Estate: Very manual, illiquid, challenging, costly, & time consuming investment [I have 9 rental properties]. Very difficult to scale and each house project takes at least 3 months min. [5-10% Yield annually]

ETH: Extremely volatile, nascent technology that has the potential to be the internet of value. Has loads of headwinds [regulatory, challengers, technological, financial] against it. Also has some of the smartest developers in the world working on it, and is at the bleeding edge of software.

Asking this to you all seriously, but if you have your bases covered with Cash, Retirement or Stocks-401K/Roth/IRA, Brokerage etc.., Real Estate, where else do you have the same amount of upside potential as ETH beyond an individual Tech stock like whatever the next Nvidia will be?

I don't see anywhere else I can allocate my dollars that has the upside potential of ETH? Am I missing something?

u/Dreth sounds the alarm to a big change in domain names

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1g0bcb1/comment/lrbt9qz/)

Relevant to lots of crypto (and tech) websites and generally for safety around them, given that this political event will probably force a change on a lot of domain names. In short, the .io TLD will disappear.

Relevant excerpt from this article explaining it:

Since 1968, the UK and U.S have operated a major military base on the Chagos Islands (officially known as the British Indian Ocean Territory) , but the neighboring nation of Mauritius has always disputed British sovereignty over them. The Mauritian government has long argued that the British illegally retained control when Mauritius gained independence. It has taken over 50 years, but that dispute has finally been resolved. In return for a 99-year lease for the military base, the islands will become part of Mauritius.

Once this treaty is signed, the British Indian Ocean Territory will cease to exist. Various international bodies will update their records. In particular, the International Standard for Organization (ISO) will remove country code “IO” from its specification. The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA), which creates and delegates top-level domains, uses this specification to determine which top-level country domains should exist. Once IO is removed, the IANA will refuse to allow any new registrations with a .io domain. It will also automatically begin the process of retiring existing ones. (There is no official count of the number of extant .io domains.)

Officially, .io—and countless websites—will disappear. At a time when domains can go for millions of dollars, it’s a shocking reminder that there are forces outside of the internet that still affect our digital lives.

However, note that some exceptions to the rules have been made for other commercially successful TLDs (source):

With the United Kingdom giving up sovereignty of the British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius[17] (but maintaining the military base on Diego Garcia via an initial 99 year lease), it is possible under IANA rules, the .io domain will eventually have to be phased out within the following several years,[18][19] although historically, some exceptions been granted, as was the case for .su.

#81: October 4, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fvrhxr/comment/lq98se3/)

u/alexiskef

✨E✨t✨h✨e✨r✨e✨u✨m✨

https://dune.com/lamora/optimism-citizens

$2380.07

u/ridgerunners

0.03893

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fsnv17/comment/lppbypb/)

Walking in the dark,

Absence of knowledge was stark,

Computing proof benchmark.

Shitpost of the week: u/Reefthusiast

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fu8i74/comment/lpz4x4i/)

A little market lingo for noobs, when a pump falls back a little bit after sustained upward movement, it’s called a “correction”

When it falls back completely then dumps even further from where it started, it’s called “ethereum”

u/MinimalGravitas looks at the Optimism badgeholders

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fpojgj/daily_general_discussion_september_26_2024/lozmooc/)

Just wanted to share this cool dashboard showing the onchain activities of Optimism citizens/badge holders (of which there are quite a few in here):

It shows a comparison with a control group of normal Optimism users, with metrics such as participation in other DAOs, usage of OP stack chains and web3 social media.

The biggest difference seems to be in adoption of Farcaster, with 59% of badgeholders using it compared to about 12% of regular users. It also really shows how much more popular Farcaster is than Lens, which is only used by about 11.4% of badgeholders (and less than 8% of regular users).

I'd be interested to see crossover metrics with those used for the EVMaverick Resume (https://dune.com/mtitus6/EVMavericks-Resume) such as the number of stakers, wallet age etc, and vis versa, showing EVM participation in other DAOs etc.

In fact, I wonder how many OP Citizens also hold an EVMav? It feels pretty stupid that I've been in crypto so long and never bothered to learn to use Dune, maybe that will be my project for the weekend...

u/Ethical-trade delivers a big hopium hit

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fqg5x4/daily_general_discussion_september_27_2024/lp7aprd/)

Ethereum mainnet gas at 23 Gwei right now.

Not in a bullrun, not in a mania phase. During a truly boring period.

While L2s scale us 23x. While active addresses are at an ATH of 10 million a week.

The market clearly doesn't see it yet but here's what will happen within a few months:

After years of underperformance, ether sees a sudden correction. Narratives immediately follow price action. Enthusiasm returns. Euphoria follows. Influencers on all sides start to pretend they all saw it coming. It was obvious. Activity skyrockets. L1 burn brings deflation back. L2 activity keeps growing, faster and faster. Millions of new users join the L2s. Blob usage reach max value. More users. Price discovery begins. Blobs start contributing to the burn. New L2s appear faster than you can follow. More institutional L2s. Blackrock L2. Stock market on L2. More users. Soon, L2 activity is higher than we can accommodate.

Ether price explodes.

Getting into eth action is 100x easier than last bullrun. People buy using paypal. People buy using debit card on Metamask. Coinbase sends their flux of new users to Base. More users. Ethereum starts to become a staple of reliability brands use in commercials. Institutions start to notice Ethereum. Mentioning Ethereum in business plans becomes as popular as AI currently is. Institutions want exposure, this time they can. More users. The ETF gains crazy popularity. Money inflows look like they'll keep coming forever. Negative regulatory efforts don't matter anymore, you can't stop the infinity machine.

Ethereum made it. We made it.

u/hanniabu covers the latest drama and the underlying debate and follows up with a call to action for home stakers

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fqg5x4/daily_general_discussion_september_27_2024/lp8ol0v/)

Max Resnick is back with some more bad takes.

For those that missed it, in yesterday's Execution Layer meeting (discussion goes for about 30min) there was a discussion on whether to increase blobs from 4 to 5 and increase the blob target from 3 to 4 in Pectra A. The reason for this is to maintain adoption of blobs by L2s to help tide us over until we have PeerDAS.

Before continuing it's important to note that the blobs we have now were always meant to be a stopgap until PeerDAS and network upgrades, which makes it more efficient to scale. We were never meant to scale blobs under current conditions.

There were mentions that some are already struggling with bandwidth, but was brushed off as anecdotal. Thankfully Potuz spoke up for home stakers and said we should treat data from both sides the same since those that are having no issues is anecdotal too. So there was agreement to get more data on this first before deciding whether to include these changes or not. Ryan Berckmans also made a post on the research forum for this data.

Today Ben Edgington, who is a major contributor to getting Ethereum to where it is today, wrote in a Twitter thread that he was seeing he was having signs of issues too.

In comes Max Resnick quote tweeting Ben's post and the following conversation insued:

Max: Bandwidth capacity grows at 50% a year. Asking the entire global network to slow down while we are actively battling for market share with an extremely competent opponent because you live in a swamp with 12mb/s bandwidth is extremely selfish.

Ben: Where did I ask for the entire global network to slow down?

Max: You are literally saying your node can not keep up, so you want to propose fewer blobs in your blocks. Why don't you shut your node down and unstake? You are slowing down the network by doing this.

Ben: I dislike your dystopian future.

Max: We can no longer afford to eat the cost of these luxury beliefs. Solo staking in a place where you do not have appropriate bandwidth imposes an externality on the network. If Ethereum doesn't win, the world looks much more dystopian than a world where Ethereum sacrifices a few rural solo stakers in exchange for vastly increased performance.

end

Nixo put it perfectly with how it feels reading that:

That feeling when arrogant young blood opining on the future of Ethereum comes in hot and tells the one of the most OG cypherpunks I know, who literally wrote the book on Ethereum, to shut down his node and unstake [image of sad pepe looking out a rainy window]

And Max replies to nixo's tweet with a gif saying to shut it down. What a disgrace.

To better understand how home stakers are doing bandwidth wise, please take this EthStaker survey (it's POAP gated):

https://x.com/ethStaker/status/1839763102952501613

Calling all home stakers! We're looking to investigate if stakers would be concerned about increasing network bandwidth

Please help by filling out a quick survey: https://poap-feedback.deform.cc/Solo-Staker-Bandwidth-Survey/

You need one of the staking community POAPs to fill out the survey. Let me know if there are any we should add so you can fill this out.

Share on the everything app: https://x.com/ethStaker/status/1839763102952501613

u/growthepie_eth provides us with an L2 ecosystem update

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fr6w8s/daily_general_discussion_september_28_2024/lpc0pfi/)

🥧 This Week - In the Ethereum Pie - Layer 2 update:
(I have a version with links but they are all to X posts.... Would that be allowed and more importantly would that be wanted?)

Op Mainnet Transactions ~2x in the past 90 days
Base begins its weekly Throughput hikes
Starknet eyeing up to be the next L2 with +$100M Stablecoins
L2s continue to increase the adoption rate of Stablecoins in the Ethereum Ecosystem
2 successful Gitcoin rounds – Thanks to all who donated
Base is supporting builders around the world to fix local problems – 100ETH in Prizes
Reminder to all builders to tag their contract addresses
Metis having a new wave of active addresses
Taiko reclaims 3rd place in Transaction Count
Rent Paid to L1 up 400% - past 30 days
Layer 2 Utility rising thanks to Account Abstraction
Muti chain activity is up 12% this week
Base however has seen a fall in Cross-Chain Activity
Reminder we have had low fees for less than a year – Builders are building
Team member Ahoura writes on “Is Ethereum experiencing an existential crisis?”

u/HSuke shares their story of falling for a scam

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fr6w8s/daily_general_discussion_september_28_2024/lpchlgo/)

After a decade in the crypto space, I finally became a victim of a scam. Fortunately, it was only for about $20 worth of useless Hamster Kombat tokens, and I was already fullly prepared for it to be a scam.

This was entirely expected. At least I got front-row tickets to see this shitshow, and it's been the most fun I've had from the utterly-boring Hamster Kombat game.

Around this August, the HamsterKomat team promoted a non-KYC, no-gas method for the token airdrop that used the Ebi.xyz DEX. All the other airdrop methods uses CEXs that weren't available in the US, so that was my only choice. I figured the airdrop would be tiny, and I couldn't care less about it, so I picked it because it the easiest method.

I already knew Ebi.xyz was an unknown DEX that was created around the time that Hamster Kombat launched, possibly by the same Hamster Kombat team. Pretty much nothing is known about the real members of either team.

3 days before the airdrop, Ebi team said they had airdropped tokens to their users. We told them they were wrong.
Around this time, the HamsterKombat sub shut down and disabled all new posts. The mods left and the remaining mod has since disappeared.
On the day of the airdrop (Sept 26), Ebi congratulated everyone for receiving their airdrop
Not a single person who used Ebi actually received their airdrop
After a few hours, they said they were encountering technical difficulties, and their website became unavailable
A few hours later, the website came back up, and Ebi said they were working through technical difficulties due to high volume
By now, their Twitter account and Discord channel was full of thousands of people calling them scammers
On Sept 27, they made an announcement that the Airdrop claims were live. We immediately checked, saw nothing, and told them they were full of shit.
On Sept 28, the Ebi.xyz website went down for maintenance again and came back up 2 hours later. And none of us have received our tokens.
The token price has been dropping about 15-30% every day, and we have no idea what they're doing with our tokens.

And that wraps up what I know so far.

u/LogrisTheBard shares some thoughts on investing trends, the cost of living and AI

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fsnv17/daily_general_discussion_september_30_2024/lppkngp/)

Some pontification... I feel like I've been able to predict all the major tech trends from the last 25 years, whether it was operating systems, search engines, cloud computing, weed stocks, EVs, crypto, or AI. Right now, for the first time in a long time, I just don't know.

AI, at least at the startup stage, is clearly in a bubble. I strongly believe in the transformative power of AI but it's already had its 10x recently and random VC investments I'm reviewing are raising $100M just for mentioning AI. Do you honestly expect NVDA to do another 10x from here? You can buy MSFT and just sit on it or something broad spectrum like VTI and probably make your 8% a year but that's not a play for risk-seeking capital like all these other bets have been. Gold's been having a great run with nation states trying to de-dollarize and basically rotating US bond reserves into precious metal reserves but even if I'm up like 40% there it's just boring and I don't see a future in it outside of the current run. Maybe I need to look into emerging markets? Maybe there just is no 1000% tech investment to be found right now and I just need to stay informed, preserve capital, and wait? In the meantime I'm just parked barbell style in liquidity farming and working the fiat mines but it increasingly feels like if I'm not making 10% a year on my whole portfolio I'll be falling behind to inflation let alone able to live off my assets.

I feel like I have enough most people would consider me wealthy but increasingly capital is the only thing that will make money in the world while the supply and demand of human labor will be increasingly out of balance as AI accelerates. Child care costs over $2k a month while the employees watch 8 kids each and make like $10-15/hr. Universities put students hundreds of thousands into student debt yet lecturers are working multiple jobs to get by. The medical industry and end of life care is going to systemically drain all the boomers wealth before it passes down but the caretakers of those facilities are overworked and couldn't afford a room at the facilities they work at. All of our services seem to cost astronomical amounts compared to pre-covid but the people doing the work aren't making that. So who is? Capital.

You can see what's happening to the 98% of people already left behind. Now add in AI displacing tens of millions of jobs over the next decade. As is the nature of automation, it will replace labor with profits to AI companies but a 10/1 ratio. I once led a team of AI engineers that was automating the jobs of 200 workers at $15 an hour per engineer per year. The software was considered a depreciating asset with a three year shelf life so we were considered to be making $18M in savings per engineer per year. That was 6 years ago; the technology is much more powerful now.

I feel like there's this metaphorical wave I need to catch and I'm just behind the crest of it working hard to get on top of it so I can let the water do the work instead of me padding the whole way. The fear of being left behind keeps me motivated but it's not a happy mindset. The way out of it is to combine let the fiat mines pay the bills while I find the next 5x tech innovation to ride up but again I feel stumped there for the first time in a long time.

u/eviljordan has the latest on the Google Ethereum price shenanigans

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fsnv17/daily_general_discussion_september_30_2024/lpqzn5d/)

Regarding eth-usd Google data: You may have noticed Google removed the nice chart in search results. This data used to be powered by CoinMarketCap.

Earlier in the month, the data just stopped and was stuck.

Myself and other members of this community called attention to Google (and I tried getting in touch with CoinMarketCap, but, no surprise, no one responded). Last week, a Google search for "eth-usd" started working again, but without a chart. It's actually returning data from Yahoo! Finance.

I also noticed that my Google Sheets function (=GOOGLEFINANCE("ETHUSD")) was still stuck on the wrong price, so I clicked the "Disclaimer" in the footer of Google Sheets around stock/currency prices, which led me to this familiar page: https://www.google.com/googlefinance/disclaimer/

HOWEVER, the provider of cryptocurrency data has changed from CoinMarketCap to Morningstar (I assume this Morningstar).

I can't find the price of regular old ETH (or BTC or anything else crypto-related that's not a fund) on their public site, but maybe it's behind a login/paywall.

Anyway, the point is, Google must be aware shit's not working, but they didn't really fix anything yet. I encourage you to click those little "Help" buttons/links in Sheets or in Search or in your Admin Console and complain! Squeaky wheel and all that!

u/Dreth fills us in on the happenings in Chinese financial markets

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ftg8jb/daily_general_discussion_october_1_2024/lpuikxy/)

Something's brewing in Chinese markets. I'm sure you guys remember the Chinese housing market was going through a bubble pop and property prices had come down significantly from their peak over there. With lots of property in horrendous conditions, lots of property being liquidated at low prices but nobody purchasing them, etc.

Recently the People's Bank of China announced several measures that in isolation might seem appropriate to stimulate the economy, but when combined all together generate a crazy amount of stimulus. This is with the intend of pushing economic growth up, increasing stock market prices and increasing property prices.

The measures are:

Interest rates paid to savings in banks were pushed down from 1.7% to 1.5% - The lowest interest rate in its history. This is intended to push banks to seek to lend more and the movement of savings into the market for investment.
The % of deposits that must be covered by liquid reserves in banks (only for the largest banks). It used to be 10% but it's been reduced to 9.5%. Its lowest level since 2007. This is expected to come down even more in the future. This allows them to use this additional liquidity to provide more credit. Approximately an additional injection of about 140 billion USD equivalent of liquidity.
Cut of interest rates for business debt and mortgages, reduced from 3.35% to 3.15%. Incentivising more lending for families and businesses.

Additionally, they want to create a new monetary policy tool to refloat the stock market, a swap program for securities, insurance companies and funds to obtain liquidity through asset collateralization, essentially collateralized lending.

This essentially opens up 500 billion yan (~70 billion USD) of liquidity with possible expansions in the future.

They're also intending to create a fund to 'stabilize the stock market'. Essentially a centrally planned monetary policy plan to artificially push the stock market up and property.

Lastly, for property purchases, they want to reduce the barrier of entry for 2nd home purchases, which used to be limited for banks to lend about 75% of the value of the property, but now banks can lend about 85% of the value of the property. For smaller local government entities, banks will be allowed to lend 100% of the value of properties if those local government entities want to buy those 'unpurchaseable' properties. Up until now banks were allowed to lend 60% of the value of those properties to those local government entities.

The People's Bank of China also said that this 'won't be enough' and that they will have to resort to fiscal stimulus as well.

Since September 13th, the CSI 300 (capitalization-weighted stock market index designed to replicate the performance of the top 300 stocks traded on the Shanghai Stock Exchange and the Shenzhen Stock Exchange) has since risen in price about 27%.

Generally if you're invested in this market, congratulations. For everyone else, this is generally very risky. Every time megastimulus plans like these are launched, enormous amounts of liquidity flow into perhaps not the most productive places in the economy, but instead often times those targeted sectors affected by the stimulus, regardless of the productivity of these markets or if they can even recover.

The fear and greed index of the CSI 300 and the ETF call volume have both risen to their highest level since 2015.

TL;DR: The People's Bank of China is applying a megastimulus to the economy to refloat the stock and property markets to a concerning extent.

Some articles in case anyone wants to do more reading:

u/benido2030 explains the utility of the EIGEN token

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ftg8jb/daily_general_discussion_october_1_2024/lpthpzq/)

Eigenlayer is a restaking protocol, which means it provides security/ trust for new protocols/ products that don't have the time/ money/ community to build it from scratch. People stake ETH to secure Ethereum and the same collateral can be reused ("restaked") to secure new L1s, L2s, oracles etc.

Usually when you stake, you can be slashed when you misbehave. When you try to misbehave (e.g. double spend) on ETH mainnet this can (and will) be slashed and you will lose ETH as a consequence because this happens onchain and is easy to judge.

But there are things that the blockchain/ nodes can't detect or that aren't easy to judge. These decisions are "intersubjective". Slashing isn't possible. One famous example is a data availability layer where a node withholds information. This doesn't happen onchain, because the submission of the data happens offchain.

For these "intersubjective" cases $EIGEN comes into play. If people believe that nodes misbehaved they challenge the nodes, fork $EIGEN and hope that others follow their arguments and make their $EIGEN fork the new central token within Eigenlayer. Eigenlayer obviously can't and shouldn't even try to fork ETH, so they created their own token to take this task.

tl;dr

ETH is used for objective misbehaviour

EIGEN is used of intersubjective misbehaviour

u/austonst updates us on Aestus and timing games and u/haurog starts a great conversation with Auston

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fu8i74/daily_general_discussion_october_2_2024/lpxpmjj/)

u/austonst:

Also posted in r/ethstaker, but I don't think people will mind seeing it here too:

I'd like to share an article I've written about what u/KuDeTa and I are doing with respect to block proposal timing games for the Aestus relay. We've been experimenting with timing games for a while and in the interest of transparency would like to share our motivation, proposer-configurable parameters, and a bit of data.

The full article is here: https://hackmd.io/@austonst-aestus/BJsvEoia6

It's a little long to copy directly onto Reddit, but I can provide and elaborate on the main points:

Block proposal timing games are unavoidable; at this point the best outcome is ensuring democratized access to high-quality timing management tools.
Aestus will apply a safe delay to all getHeader requests coming from validators identified by user agent.
Aestus's default timing games implementation results in a median delay of 735 ms.
Validators looking to be more conservative or more aggressive may customize parameters by appending ?headerDelay={ms}&headerCutoff={ms} to the Aestus listing in their mev-boost relay list.
We encourage staking pools and relays to be transparent about timing games.

If you need some background on timing games, I provide a few links at the start. Timing games aren't a good thing in general: they're zero-sum for proposers and basically negative-sum when you consider the impact on network health. You can draw reasonable comparisons to an iterated n-player prisoner's dilemma, where once you know a handful of actors are always going to defect, it's in your best interest to defect as well, if only to mitigate your losses.

But this isn't too different from mev-boost: if we can't solve the problem (without protocol changes) we can at least reduce the advantage sophisticated actors have over everyone else. And when it comes to timing games, implementing them on the relay side with a careful eye towards consensus health should accomplish this. The article should cover the rest.

To quickly address the current hot topic, the blob-shaped elephant in the room whose ISP strangles their upload bandwidth: yeah, relay-side timing games will delay block publication (that's the point), giving less time for blobs to propagate around the network. But when you accept a bid over mev-boost, the relay--with its well-connected clients and prime data center location--will be the one responsible for initial block propagation.

If you use mev-boost with relay-side timing games, the block may be delayed but you can trust the relay to propagate it fast. If you don't use mev-boost at all, your client will produce a block ASAP but you need to trust your own network to propagate it. The middle ground may be more interesting: mev-boost with timing games AND a --min-bid means you delay block production but may end up responsible for your own block propagation.

If you're a validator concerned about local propagation after delays, you could specify ?headerDelay=0 in your Aestus mev-boost entry to disable timing games at the cost of lowering bid value, though if you're doing that, make sure to also remove Ultrasound and BloXroute relays from your list, as they also run timing games (BloXroute does allow for timing configuration, but I think you need to pay for their validator gateway service separately). There's no point in making Aestus return a bid early if your mev-boost client is just going to sit there waiting 900 ms for the other relays' responses.

I'm always happy to discuss. Feel free to reply or reach out directly.

I dislike every part of this, but unfortunately timing games are a reality. Thank you for the transparency, making a reasonable compromise and especially the possibility to change the defaults. I think currently there is very little incentive for solo stakers to actively optimize for timing games as the execution layer income is just a small part of the overall income. As far as I see this year execution income is slightly above 10% of the overall staking income, at least for the 20 random validators I checked, and increasing that by timing games by another 1-2 percentage points is not really a lot. At least for me it is not worth it to compromise the network integrity over it. Obviously there are different opinions about it. If the MEV opportunity increases again it might become a more substantial part of the revenue. I think overall it shows for how little reward some actors are ready to compromise the Network. Not really surprising, but just interesting to keep in mind.

#80: September 27, 2024

Special guest Mark Richardson joins us from Bancor to discuss Carbon DeFi, an automation tool for onchain trading.

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fqg5x4/comment/lp52uhf/)

Ethereum

$2645.30

u/M4gelock

0.04053 grandpas

https://warpcast.com/growthepie/0xd8c82434

90,891 hodlers subscribed! (+8)

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fowp6i/comment/lox9j95/)

Caroline got two,

Crypto market bumps into,

Sam is a crook too.

Shitpost of the week: u/KotMyNetchup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fowp6i/comment/louw7x3/)

Even Google realizes the price is never going to change.

Context: When you google "eth price" it was stuck on September 14th's price, this feature has since been removed all together while remaining for BTC 😔

u/Tricky_Troll celebrates being on the receiving end of the EthFinance community's incredible generosity

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1flvgzu/daily_general_discussion_september_21_2024/lo624a0/)

Oh my god you guys. Who's cutting onions in here? 🥹

Yes I'm coming to Hodlercon now!!! I am at a loss for words with your generosity! I am so grateful to be a part of this wonderful community and the doots won't die until this subreddit dies or I do... (unless Reddit nukes my account or something, but I'm sure I'd find a way around it though). Anyway, through the incredibly kind funding, raising 1.2 ETH from from u/superphiz, u/allinat40, u/haurog, u/alexiskef, u/shiftli, u/KuDeTa, u/Gumpa-Bucky, u/austonst and u/da3vr, I will absolutely be seeing you all in Phuket!

As a token of my appreciation I will be sending out a POAP soon (please DM me if you donated from a CEX or not your POAP wallet with your preferred wallet). I also have some ideas for a special something to give each of you in person (please let me know if any of you won't be at Hodlercon). Nothing big, but hopefully something meaningful, think of it like a physical POAP. No promises just yet but I've got an idea of something I may be able to do.

I have already checked and I can definitely change my flight for minimal extra cost. I still need to figure out the logistics, ie can I fly out of Phuket to Aus/NZ or do I need to go back to Bangkok but it seems I can change my flight and get credit for another flight for no extra cost! This just leaves any extra cost for getting to Phuket, the Hodlercon ticket, accommodation, food and airport parking for an extra week. All of which I have no reason to believe will go over my newly increased budget.

I also just want to say it was impressive/bold of you all to remember/have faith that tricky.eth was indeed my address. I have rarely mentioned that and it could've gone very wrong if you had the wrong address haha.

Finally, I just want to say that this community never disappoints and all of the work being done around the doots now with the podcast is incredibly motivating for me. I love to see the awesome things coming to fruition out from this community and I hope this is just the beginning.

u/BuyETHorDAI reviews the Ethereum film

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1flvgzu/daily_general_discussion_september_21_2024/lo9bg72/)

Just watched the documentary about Ethereum and Vitalik. I thought it was pretty good overall. There's a great scene with a recording of Charles crying about how he won't become a CEO because Ethereum is going to be a public good (I'm paraphrasing). Gave me a good chuckle. The movie is here https://ethereumfilm.xyz/. Costs $20 in ETH for a streaming ticket, but this is stuff I like to see onchain, so props.

u/haurog covers some big Pectra changes

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fncsy5/daily_general_discussion_september_23_2024/lohnj3l/)

In the all Core Devs Consensus call last Thursday they discussed the size of the upcoming Pectra Fork. They pretty much decided to make the Pectra fork much smaller again and split it into two hard forks. In essence all the EIPs that are currently being live on devnets (i.e. internal testnets) will be bundled into the first upgrade, whereas anything not part of these devnets will get its own hard fork later on. The reasoning is that the EIPs that are currently tested will soon be ready for public testnets and then mainnet. Waiting for the other EIPs to be ready would delay these upgrades by several months. More details about the reasoning can be found here: https://hackmd.io/@ralexstokes/rJVuKtlpR

As it currently stands it is planned to have the the following EIPS in Pectra 1

EIP-2537: Precompile for BLS12-381 curve operations
EIP-2935: Save historical block hashes in state
EIP-6110: Supply validator deposits on chain
EIP-7002: Execution layer triggerable exits
EIP-7251: Increase the MAX_EFFECTIVE_BALANCE
EIP-7549: Move committee index outside Attestation
EIP-7685: General purpose execution layer requests
EIP-7702: Set EOA account code for one transaction

Most important for stakers are the maxEB (EIP 7251) and EL triggerable exits (EIP 7002) changes. These two allow a single validator to have up to 2048 ETH in balance and the advantage that one can trigger a validator exit by signing a message from the withdrawal address. The account abstraction EIP (7702) is interesting as it allows and EOA account to behave like a smart contract account. There is also the discussion to include a smaller change which would increase the Blob target and max from the current 3/6 to either 4/6 or higher numbers. But there is no consensus about this yet.

Notably absent from this list are the bigger EIPs (PeerDAS and EOF). This means we are pretty much at the size of Pectra as it was initially planned (until May 2024), right before the size blew up massively by including PeerDAS and EOF. The plan is to have the first upgrade at the beginning of next year (q1/q2) whereas the second upgrade with PeerDAS and EOF would be at the end of next year. Obviously this still is in discussion so details might change. No idea what this means for the already scoped Verkle tree upgrade which is a large execution layer change which was planned to come afterwards. I guess the next few weeks will give more clarity.

u/benido2030 starts a discussion about decentralised sequencers for L2s

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fo4r11/daily_general_discussion_september_24_2024/lonpou1/)

The bankless episode with Mike Neuder was pretty interesting. I am not yet done, but one thing caught my attention: I think we discussed centralized sequencers here probably years ago and pointed out that these aren't perfect, but that we expect some L2s to have only one sequencer that will do all the work and that there will be some decentralized L2s. My mental model from these discussions was "there will be a bit of everything".

Mike yesterday basically said that he expects "all" (most) L2s to have a decentralized sequencer and that it is the best strategy for them, because they won't be more decentralized than L1, inherit all the necessary properties from l1 and shouldn't even try emphasize that dimension. His conclusion is more or less that real-time censorship resistance is cool (which is the result of decentralized sequencing), but it's probably not as important with the possibility of forced inclusion via L1.

Is a decentralized sequencer only important in our bubble? The more I think about, the more I believe it is - and we are a niche, so developing for us and similar users might be good enough for one or two L2s, but that's it. So will we see 99.9% of the sequencers running on one machine?

u/pa7x1 makes an observation about the supply and demand of blockspace

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fo4r11/daily_general_discussion_september_24_2024/loppxf9/)

It's gonna keep happening. Excess supply of blockspace will eventually be gobbled up. Even if it's to do the same stuff but leaner, easier, more user friendly.

https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/14l05iz/daily_general_discussion_june_28_2023/jptzgx4/

Even without new use cases that are brought forward with cheaper blockspace, which I think there are, there is a lot of pent-up blockspace demand in the form of better UX and easier to write code.

We saw something similar with our computers and the internet. As the resources available were scaled up, the computers didn't get much faster to do the same things we were doing. And web pages didn't load up faster. Instead, a lot of those extra new resources went into nicer UX and cheaper/easier to deliver code. We are in the era of smart contract programmers thinking long and hard about how they implement the functionality to minimize gas costs, looking at OPCODES and trying find microoptimizations to squeeze those extra gas savings. There was a time when programmers thought long and hard about the performance of their applications and would often go to assembly to optimize them. For most use cases programmers don't do that anymore because CPU cycles have become so cheap that it's silly to optimize for that. The same will happen with blockspace, as it becomes cheaper and cheaper we will start to use it less efficiently in exchange for improved UX or easier code.

u/PhiMarHal covers a bit of a brick wall for hobbyist developers

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fo4r11/daily_general_discussion_september_24_2024/loqy6yd/)

As a casual hobbyist developer, I keep hitting a wall at the block explorer verification step.

You can write just about any smart contract idea you have by messing around in Remix IDE. You can deploy it to the blockchain. It will run on its own forever on a permissionless network for everyone to interact with. Thirdparties can even build more stuff on top of your contracts. Amazing!

But the moment you want to make your code easy to check on a centralized block explorer? There's this huge skill bump, where you need to use the command line, install git/nodejs/npm/truffle/hardhat/scoop/foundry and a million of other things, and none of it works anyway.

Well, I say "you", it is of course "me", dumb old me who never gets this stuff.

But, still, isn't this wild? Intuitively it feels like the hard part would be, you know, building the actual thing? Rather than proving the thing you built is what you say it is.

Imports used to be my main grievance. Now I'm discovering the fresh hell that is --via-ir verification. At least now I have AI... To help me fail faster.

-- edit: finally found a way! Nothing like a good rant in public to have a breakthrough.

For any other tortured soul who might end up in the same situation, the working path was

"generate contract metadata" ticked on in Remix IDE
get the giganormous hexadecimal .json in artifacts/build-info folder
crop its contents to keep just the "language", "settings" and "sources" bits
on the block explorer verification page, use Solidity Standard-Json-Input in the compiler type dropdown panel
It Just Works.

The world is saved. Praise Vitalik. Praise all of you. I love you all. Good night.

u/nick_badlands rambles about where we are this cycle

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fl4c68/daily_general_discussion_september_20_2024/lo4i1s5/)

"It's different this time"

Just sharing some ramblings to help me solidify my theory on where we go from here.

I was a bit worried for a while, when the hype of the Bitcoin ETFs was going on it all got a bit too excited, too quick for me for a while, I was slightly concerned the 4 year cycle wasn't gonna happen as usual.

We seem to be back on course. Bitcoin still rules the jungle (for now) so what is happening with it still matters deeply for Ethereum.

Rate cuts have started in the US, the rest of the world has largely yet to follow course but they will as the cycle turns. Gold is rising and Peter Schiff is getting all excited about it but what usually follows after this is Bitcoin making him eat his words. Pretty sure this will happen again.

In my gut, I think there is one more big drop still to come, there is usually some event that scares people witless before we go to Valhalla. Would love to be wrong on this and we go straight there from this but it fits the usual pattern. From there we start marching on with Bitcoin leading the charge.

Next what happens is money starts to look elsewhere and the fabled Altcoin season has its time to shine. I think Ethereum will start attracting attention sooner rather than later and considering the hate it seems to be getting lately, it will be a glorious, hated rally by those who miss out.

I'm sure others will pump but I'm not worried by the likes of Solana etc. It's still a centralised shitcoin that's good for meme coins but anything else? Pretty sure it will go the way of EoS, Cardano and all the other so called Eth killers in the long term.

I've been staying well way from buying any crypto other than BTC/ETH since the 2017 cycle and sure I've missed out on shit but I'm in it for the long haul.

We have ETH ETFs and we've moved to PoS so all those ESG/green funds can take part that can't in Bitcoin.

We have scale this time, L2s are growing and growing.

Crypto is getting easier and easier to use.

Still waiting to see what the next narrative will be, we had ICOs, DEFI, NFTs all started on Ethereum to kick things off before, what will be next? Is it time for the long talked about real-world assets to enter the party this time?

Ignore all the noise, am pretty sure that we see a great bull market starting as per the usual 4 year cycle. I might even sell some of my precious ETH for the first time this time around :)

u/haurog brings a write up expanding on the disconnect of knowledge on a recent podcast

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fowp6i/comment/lotrw6t/)

I have finished the recent bankless episode with Max Resnick called "Is the Ethereum Roadmap Off Track?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLUJ0uLye0U

I knew it will be difficult to listen to for me and I ranted about the guest a bit here before. It is mostly due to the guest being unable to contribute in any meaningful way to the discussion and making false statements everywhere. Now that I have finished it, my conclusion is: should we really listen to someone on their opinions about rollups who seems to have such a gross misunderstanding how this stuff works. He might have very good opinions about the MEV part of the roadmap or about auctions, I cannot judge that but he seems unable to understand how the rollup part really works.

I keep it to the largest issues I have heard and leave out many smaller wrong statements the guest made. To be very clear, my understanding of rollups has a lot of gaps, so please correct me if I am stating something wrong here I am eager to be corrected and learn.

After the 55 minute mark he states

ZK technology inherently compresses the state whereas the optimistic rollups have to put the transactions on chain and maybe they can run a little bit of compression but it's not nearly the amount of compression you can get with uh ZK roll up

Wrong. There is no compression in ZK technology used today in rollups. The zk part just gives a relatively short string of numbers and characters which prove that the ~~calculation~~ state transitions has been done right. There is no extractable information about the state in this proof. Both rollup types have to put all transactions on chain via blobs. Many people use the simplified term 'compression' to get the meaning across, but this is not an accurate description of what is happening in the case of ZK rollups. It really seems like Max took the marketing term of ZK is compression and went with it without understanding what is happening and to draw his conclusions based on this flawed understanding. To make matters worse optimistic rollups do have less overhead in the calldata as they do not have to publish a fraud proof. So it is actually the exact inverse from what he says. Don't get me wrong I am a big fan of zk rollups and really hope they will dominate in the coming years. Max is just wrong here from a technical point.

let let me just be very precise that optimistic rollup does not actually substantially reduce the amount of bandwidth required

This is very wrong the bandwidth requirement can get reduced by the same amount in zk rollups and optimistic rollups. They both publish all transactions in the same way into blobs. They can employ the same optimization techniques to reduce the size of this blob data. Zk rollups have a slight overhead so use a bit more bandwidth. If he would have read/understood vitaliks post about rollups he would know that: https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2021/01/05/rollup.html

like we can start to build uh ZK compression into the L1 as well and that would reduce the bandwidth requirements

Again the 'compression' which does not really exist. But on the L1 ZK technology can be used to massively reduce the bandwidth and still validate that the state transition has been applied correctly. The node would not know the actual state but it could validate that it is correct. Like the Mina L1 does zk proofs of their state transitions. So, the statement is only half wrong.

from a bandwidth perspective you have almost the same usage from a optimistic L2 as you would if it was happening on the layer one and the only thing you're saving is on execution

Bandwidth argument is wrong, as explained above. One massively saves on execution in both cases of rollups though.

I think his misunderstanding of the ZK part in zk rollups works fits into his initial rant at the beginning of the episode where he accused the EF and companies behind optimistic rollups to have pushed a roadmap which is against zk rollups. If one does not understand what zk rollups really need it is a bit bold to accuse someone of pushing a wrong roadmap which actually massively benefits zk rollups as well.

we do need to take some tools from the newer blockchains one of them in particular is this kind of parallel execution

Parallel exection is already part of Besu: https://besu.hyperledger.org/development/public-networks/concepts/parallel-transaction-execution

if optimism is not arbitrum then by the transitive property cannot also be the case that optimism is ethereum and arbitrum is ethereum because then arbitrum would be optimism this is like a fundamental contradiction

I am just weirded out by this statement as the transitive relation in mathematics is not really something I would apply here to try to prove something. It is pretty normal to have a subgroup being part of a bigger group but two subgroups not being the same. I am thinking about the taxonomy hierarchy in biology. A lion and a tiger are not the same species, but they still belong to the same genus called 'panthera'. That is how I think about the Ethereum ecosystem and the rollups. This is not really an important statement by him it just shows that he is using vocabulary to sound more important but applying things in a way which does not really make too much sense.

Rant finished. I now definitely have a worse opinion about him because he does hold strong opinions about things which he apparently does not really understand. This makes it very hard to judge if his opinions are worth considering as one cannot really say from his statements where the limit of his knowledge is. Everything has the same strong absolute language there is no nuance, nothing. And only if one perfectly understands the underlying technology one can judge if his statement makes sense. That is not very helpful for most people at all.

u/superphiz says good bye to Danny Ryan(for now) through the help of POAPs

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fpojgj/comment/lp0pocq/)

Yesterday I announced the "Goodbye Danny" POAP, it's a POAP to appreciate the contributions of Danny Ryan, the person who is most responsible for the Ethereum beacon chain as we know it.

It's launching with a new POAP platform, called "Airship". Airship lets you send funds to an address to receive a POAP without the need to connect to any web3 browser wallet. Effectively, if you send 0.001 Ether (exactly $5.00 at today's prices) to theprotocolguild.eth on mainnet, you will receive the POAP in about a minute. This is kind of a cool evolution and I'm excited to see where it will go.

https://airship.poap.xyz/danny

* Also, I definitely encourage gaming this to get the POAP with a minimal gas cost. How low can you go? The worst that could happen is a dropped tx and you can just try again later.

** depending on how well you know this stuff, setting a very low gas price can effectively get your wallet stuck since all transactions are processed in order. There are ways around this, but i didn't want to surprise anyone.

u/LogrisTheBard has some thoughts on EigenLayer's security model

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fowp6i/comment/lox135m/)

Some thoughts on EigenLayer's Operator Set security model.

AVSs assign operators to operating sets. I don't know if this means that by default all AVSs are whitelist only but it certainly reads that way. It's not the epitome of permissionless if true.

Stakers delegate stake to operators. How do stakers find an operator to delegate to? At the moment there's a list on the EigenLayer website which basically means EigenLayer can exclude an operator from participating just by censoring them here. At the protocol level though I don't believe they have any power so it's just like Uniswap with their front end which I guess is good enough. The bigger problem though is why does a staker trust an operator to delegate to them. At the moment the only answer here is trust. You are either trusting someone you know like Aestus or you are trusting an LRT to underwrite for you, KYC your operators, etc. We need a better answer here.

Operators then assign unique stake to operator sets. The goal here seems to be to prevent restaked ETH from being restaked multiple times which is confusing to me. It's already the case that the underlying stake securing a task can become unbacked, why is it suddenly different if it becomes unbacked within EigenLayer rather than at the LST level? The proper answer here is that capital should be reusable to the extent that the cost of dishonesty still outweighs the profit from dishonesty. The cost of dishonesty is the stake being slashed. The profit from dishonesty scales with the amount of promises you're allowed to make with that stake. I don't see how this security model is even attempting to discover a rational answer to that equation.

Within an operator set, operators are expected to vote on whether the answers of other operators are correct. Their vote is weighted by the stake they assigned to that operator set. The thing that feels wrong about this design is we are using restaked ETH as a Sybil resistance source when the nature of being an operator on an AVS consists of doing provable work. Why not just use the proof of work as the Sybil resistance source for this? I have the same feedback for subnets on BitTensor. Why do we need validators for that at all when the miners have the hardware to validate and the miners have to do work so the system can't be Sybiled?

They state that if a malicious operator takes over the operator set the system can slash him. I assume this refers to the EIGEN governance system above the AVS but they aren't explicit about this. All they say is that the only stake at risk within an operator set is the stake assigned to the operator set. I refer to stake voting schemes as subjective consensus. Ultimately, even with objective proof systems it still comes down to who runs what software e.g. Ethereum layer 0, but why involve local operator set at all at that point since the EIGEN governance system participants will apparently be required to host all the proof-validators for all AVSs since operators in every AVS will be allowed to appeal to them? If the goal is to reduce the computational load on the EIGEN governance system participants then I'd say you should first vote using PoW within an operator set then appeal to a contest amongst all the operator sets on the matter and every appeal should require slashable stake to initiate. That looks a lot more like the Colony governance design than what I just read. It's also worth noting that an operator only needs to be slashed in an eventually consistent way so zk-proofs that rely on repeated games are perfectly valid here. There's a long unlock period for validators to unstake from AVSs.

I also don't know what happens in this model if a staker undelegates to an operator. Which operator sets is the unique stake removed from? Is it proportionate, LIFO, etc? And how does stake affect rewards? Can an operator just forfeit their operator set consensus power but do honest work without any unique stake and still be rewarded? There's just a lot of undefined aspects to this system at the moment.

#79: September 20, 2024

Special guests Nick, Wander, and Rhett join us from NodeSet, a node operator incentivization layer.

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fl4c68/comment/lo0924m/)

u/spupul6

Ethereum

u/UgotTrisomy21

$2539

0.03987

https://x.com/ethStaker/status/1835768317015101472

90,873 HODLERS SUBSCRIBED (+6)

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fjkzpm/comment/lnsx49j/)

Know where you belong,

Interest rates bang a gong,

Ether sings along.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fkd3pr/comment/lnwlwim/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: u/MinimalGravitas

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fhwp53/daily_general_discussion_september_16_2024/lndwkzz/)

GM EthFam, I've got an idea, feel free to veto it, but hear me out first...

Premise 1: We are pretty well represented in many of the biggest DAOs: https://dailydoots.com/#delegates;

Premise 2: Those DAO's control treasuries worth over $20 billion: https://deepdao.io/organizations;

Premise 3: To successfully take over 50% of Bitcoin's hashrate (either by buying ASICs or setting up facilities to manufacture them yourself) would cost ~ $20 billion: https://blockchainbeat.co/how-much-to-hack-bitcoin-and-ethereum-study-reveals-price/;

Conclusion: EthFinance should orchestrate the take down of Bitcoin, then the annoying trolls that have been showing up here the last few days would be less obnoxious, mods would have less work to do, and the daily threads would be less cluttered.

u/benido2030 digs up a ZKSync delegate mystery

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ffmt2l/daily_general_discussion_september_13_2024/lmwbgz5/)

zksync governance went live yesterday. There are no proposals yet, but at least everything seems to be set up technically. Since I am one of the ETHFinance delegates, I had been visiting the page regularly to check for updates. That's why I noticed some interesting changes in voting power, some examples:

Stani (from AAVE): 9M in August, 45M in September
Baki Er: 12M in August, 61M in September
polynya: 8M in August, 38M in September

2 of the top 3 delegates (syncswap, l2beat and olimpio) are more or less unchanged with the exception of L2beat. They have more than doubled in voting power (from 47M to 106M)

For Stani and Baki Er the changes are perfectly visible in the chart on the right hand side here. For polynya I checked the "Received Delegations" tab in their delegate profile. All three profiles show basically the same, huge delegations on both the September 9th and September 12th.

So where do all these delegated tokens come from? The biggest delegation to polynya is from this account which is basically non-existent onchain according to the zksync explorer. It received the zk tokens 3 months ago from a wallet that received 6999999300 zk tokens and has been transfering the tokens to a lot of new addresses. I did a quick check and most of these accounts don't show any activity. The top delegations to both Stani and Baki Er from the past couple of days show basicalyl the exact same patterns...

With some basic maths we can see that 6.9B is basically 33% of the total supply - which makes me think, this is likely the wallet that distributes to team and investors, because according to this blog post that's the only receiving party that makes sense?

So are these changes in voting power just team members and investors delegating their (locked) tokens just before governance goes live? Did zksync just tell everyone to delegate? I don't see any other explanation, but maybe I am completely off? Any other ideas?

u/HSuke covers the SEC backpedalling

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fgelps/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2024/ln1uf9v/)

The US SEC backpeddled and finally admitted that cryptocurrencies are not "securities" but simply "crypto assets".

There were multiple articles that covered this yesterday:

Be In Crypto: SEC Clarifies What Crypto Asset Securities Means
Cointelegraph: SEC 'regrets any confusion' from dubbing tokens as securities: filing
Decrypt: Kraken Pushes for Jury Trial in SEC Lawsuit, Rails Against 'Crypto Asset Securities' Claims
U Today: SEC Just "Conceded" That ETH Is Not Security, Coinbase’s Top Lawyer Says
Crypto News: SEC backtracks on 'crypto asset securities' claim in Binance suit

In summary, the SEC admitted that they didn't consider cryptocurrencies as "securities" but as "crypto assets". (Note that this only applies within the US, and many other countries never classified crypto as securities in the first place but as "digital assets".)

"With its use of the term 'crypto asset securities,' the SEC is not referring to the crypto asset itself as the security," the agency said. Instead, a token’s status as a security "consists of the full set of contracts, expectations, and understandings centered on the sales and distribution of the [crypto asset]," it said, citing language from an earlier filing.

Thus cryptocurrencies are not securities, but how they're offered along with contracts and expectations can be considered securities.

That's what Coinbase, Binance, Kraken, and the entire crypto community have been saying all along, and it took the SEC this long to finally admit it in court.

u/DoubtStarsAreFire has a Hodlercon 2 update

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fgelps/daily_general_discussion_september_14_2024/ln1t1sg/)

Things are starting to (finally) take shape for HodlerCon 2024 Thailand Edition. If you're planning on going to DevCon in Thailand this could be the perfect opportunity for you to spend some time with your EthFinance Fam.

We'll be in Phuket from Nov 16th - 23rd at the Pullman Panwa Beach. Cost of the hotel is $800 and I have 30 rooms currently on hold. If your interested in coming to HodlerCon, fill out the hotel interest form.

Here's some of the events from the itinerary:

Pool party at the hotel
Phuket Food tour
See the Big Buddha
All day boat trip to Phi Phi Island
Visit an Elephant sanctuary

We're still working on the final price for the event ticket. Want to stay up to date on what's happening Join the Discord.

u/ethmaxitard shares u/domotheus's write-up on an alternative reality where we went all-in on L1 centric scaling

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fhwp53/daily_general_discussion_september_16_2024/lnddzuc/)

beautiful writeup on an alternate reality where we went all in on L1 scaling (it did not end well) https://x.com/domothy/status/1835188625950101590

u/hanniabu lists off the upcoming EthStaker community calls

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fhwp53/daily_general_discussion_september_16_2024/lngknef/)

Upcoming EthStaker community calls:

- Lido CSM: Run a validator with 2 ETH - 19 Sep, 4pm UTC
- NodeSet: Become part of a curated operator set - 25 Sep, 4pm UTC
- Puffer: Run a validator with 1 ETH - 2 Oct, 3pm UTC
- Stereum: Run a validator on easy mode - 9 Oct, 4pm UTC
- Ephemery testnet: Help test upgrades by running testnet validators - 14 Oct, 4pm UTC

u/haurog covers the continuation of the trend of Google getting into crypto

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fjkzpm/daily_general_discussion_september_18_2024/lnpeo9y/)

Google is coming further and further into the web3 game. They started supporting ENS addresses some time ago and directly show a summary of the address in the search results. Today they announced that they provide Ethereum RPC endpoints for developers for mainnet and testnets: https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/financial-services/introducing-blockchain-rpc-service-for-web3-builders

I guess this is a continuation of what started a year ago when they becam part of the holesky genesis validators and they run 10k holesky validators: <https:// explorer.rated.network/o/Google%20Cloud%20Web3?network=holesky&timeWindow=1d&idType=nodeOperator>

This new announcement is in direct competition to Alchemy, Infura and all the other commercial RPC providers. Pretty impressive how these large companies enter the Ethereum ecosystem bit by bit. And this time it is definitely not because of a hype they have to sell to their shareholders but probably rather strategically to get a foot into the door of the Ethereum space.

u/LogrisTheBard does a deep dive on managing risk

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fjkzpm/daily_general_discussion_september_18_2024/lnt7p9q/)

The next section of my Rabbit Hole Explorer's Guide is all about managing risk.

Don't Invest More Than You Can Afford to Lose

Crypto is full of amazing heights and soul-crushing lows. The fact that there have been multiple 90% drops and it is still the best performing asset class in the last decade is incredible. However, you can't always afford to ride it out. The crypto highs and lows tend to follow the macro highs and lows. So when crypto is low you're also jobless, economic opportunities are scarce, and you're scared. If you invest more than you can afford to lose when times are good, you could very well be one of the millions who find themselves selling while the market is down only to watch it do some crazy 30x the next cycle. People not following this advice is the source of the bitterness every time crypto comes up on your Facebook feed or technology subreddit. The problem was never crypto, the problem was they invested more than they could afford to lose.

Pay Taxes As You Go

This is actually just a specific case of the above point but I think it bears special mention. It's one thing to be penniless. It's another to be in debt. It's another still to be in debt to the government. The first case is miserable but you can still live on credit. The second case is bankruptcy and homelessness. The third case is debtor's prison. You cannot afford to invest money you owe for taxes into speculative assets. Therefore, whenever you rotate positions you should take whatever sum you need to to cover the taxes out to safer havens.

The specific case that wrecks people has to do with a crash just after the start of a new year like happened in... well 2018 and 2022. Just before the crash everyone rotates their capital back into the blue chip coins. When this happens even though they are reducing risk they are now selling something and buying something else at near all-time-high valuations. Then the crash hits, they tell themselves it's just a bear trap and don't sell, and by the time the tax bill is due they can't even liquidate their entire portfolio to pay the tax bill. Seriously, it's just less stressful to pay taxes as you go.

No One Is Giving Away Free Crypto

Whenever anything of significance happens in crypto some scammer always replies to the announcement to say "To celebrate X event we're giving away free crypto. Send scamAddress some coins and get twice that back!". This is a ridiculously stupid scam that has gotten a ridiculously stupid amount of money. I seriously can't fathom how this bullshit has managed to pull in hundreds of millions of dollars worth of crypto. Sometimes I feel like people who lose money to this type of thing deserve to do so. Mostly though I just feel sad for how this money is going to power the next wave of scams to be that much more prevalent and effective. They do this because it works and they are never going to stop.

Let me make this abundantly clear. I have been around awhile. I have been around for many significant events in crypto. No one reputable is ever giving away free ETH. For any reason. Ever. I don't care if their account name is Elon Musk and you think he's so eccentric he might actually be doing it. I don't care if they have a blue checkmark next to their name and it appears to be the same account as the one making the announcement. I don't care if it says its part of a fun new airdrop they are doing. Ever.

More generally, even in an ecosystem where 1000% gains aren't uncommon, if it looks too good to be true, that's because it is. If you see some 1000% yield LP position on some token you've never heard of it's almost certainly being fueled by inflation and you are gambling against the loss of value of your collateral. If you see some stablecoin position with unusually high yield that stablecoin probably isn't stable. If it actually is using a safe collateral and is on a safe platform and isn't a scam it's either a very new position and is about to be quickly diluted or it's being fueled by someone's marketing budget and is about to be quickly diluted.

Whether in web2 or web3, if you don't understand how you're adding value to an ecosystem you're the product. When you receive airdrops, you are being compensated for being an early user, taking early risks, boosting the numbers the team uses for valuations so they can get more funding, etc. Even legit airdrops that you can sell the day you get them are not free crypto. No one is giving away free crypto.

Inflation Is Not Profit

Every bull market in crypto has been marked by certain design patterns in tokenomics. I can mostly tell you a time range when a token was launched by its tokenomics alone like how an archeologist can tell you which civilization some ruins come from by pointing at architecture and art styles. One of those design trends in early 2021 was to launch highly inflationary tokens and then use high APR numbers to encourage people to buy the token and stake it for rewards. This was basically just a new type of casino. Your net worth would go down even as the number of tokens you hold went up 10x a year. This was basically preying on the ignorance of users who didn't really understand finance but it worked for a time while the profit the hype generated was able to expand the user base faster than the inflation rate. Once the model ran out of users to expand to the rest was history.1 2 3 4 Whenever you see a high APR in some LP or staking pool you need to slow down and investigate where the money is coming from. If it's coming from inflation you need to understand that inflation is not profit.

If It's Good Enough For a Screenshot, Take Profit

As volatile as crypto is there will come a time where you are massively up. You'll be up so much you will be in disbelief. You will refresh your portfolio checker every 15 minutes and the person sitting across the table from you will know you're doing it again because the green from the screen will reflect from your eyes. At this point, they will think you have a problem. At this point you actually do have a problem but that's besides the point. Here's the thing: you aren't a genius. Even if you actually are a genius you aren't up because you are a genius. It's just that time of the cycle.

At that time of the cycle everything you'll see in your media feed will reinforce how much of a genius you are. It's like the whole world just woke up and finally saw what you saw first. However, if you haven't heard this yet let me be the first to tell you: sentiment follow price. People love the investment now because it is up. If the price wasn't up, you'd still be waiting like you were when you first bought. 90% of those investments everyone seems to agree can't possibly fail are destined for the dustbin of history. Ever heard of Feathercoin? If you were around at the time you couldn't not hear about it. How about EOS? OmiseGo? Luna? None of these things are going to be top 100 again. When prices are up, everyone is a genius. At the end of the cycle when you're holding the bag you won't feel like it any more.

How will you know when the top is? If there was a numeric answer to that then we'd all just sell then and the top would come sooner. The game theory of that makes the price chart look highly chaotic at the tops. The best answer I can give you having lived through some unbelievable peaks and valleys is if it's good enough for a screenshot, take profit.

Leverage Will Fuck You Up

Leverage in crypto takes many forms. We have all kinds of financial gizmos you've probably never heard of and which you'll take years to acclimate to. Like, yes, we have options protocols but we also have rate stripping futures protocols, perpetual swaps, and leveraged derivatives. The leverage around here goes to 100x and it all seems to get more complicated and interwoven every year.

Regardless of the form of leverage though, the goal is to amplify the effect of a market change on your portfolio. This is all well and good when you're dealing with something like bond rates that adjust like 0.25% a month and you can just afford to wait to expiry if you're wrong. Waiting it out is basically what banks are doing right now and why their unrealized loss chart looks like blood dripping down a painting. Crypto assets are more volatile. You're not just playing with gasoline here; this stuff might as well be nuclear. I wouldn't advise you to play with the nuclear bomb without knowing what you're doing. I don't care if it has a red button that says "Press Me for Limitless Energy". I wouldn't advise you to play with crypto leverage either even if their website has a fun points system.

Applying leverage to crypto assets, means amplifying the financial effect of something that is already known to drop by over 90% and with rate swings in the thousands of percentage points over a year. If you aren't right, continuously right without any blips, you won't be waiting this out. You'll be liquidated. I have seen too many veterans fall to the hubris of thinking the price can't possible fall to X level. Then, for one brief candle of intense market fear it does and they've lost more than they've bargained for. Before you play with leverage you should have a forecast for what the market will do that justifies taking such a risk. You should have contingency plans to execute on if your prediction isn't coming true in the timeframe you expect. Don't let it linger on until you feel like it's a sunk cost. Definitely don't double down. Every time you sign a transaction involving leverage repeat this in your head: leverage will fuck you up.

Get Rich Slow

This last one summarizes the spirit of all the above advice. Thriving in this ecosystem is first and foremost about survival. Surviving is often a matter of having a clear head and assessing risks rationally when everyone else isn't. That requires having your emotions under control. Whenever you take any extreme action you are going to experience extreme emotions about it. Those emotions will cause you to act rashly. This is how you end up scammed, overexposed and holding shitcoins you don't honestly believe in, having missed the top of the cycle without taking profit because everything seemed so bullish, being liquidated at the bottom, in debt to the government, and joining the ranks of the disillusioned about what is otherwise a wonderful civilization changing technology. Life is a marathon. You are only racing yourself. Take the time to learn before taking big risks. Don't try to get rich quick here. Get rich slow.

u/vedran_ explains a new protocol which leverages ZK Proofs with identity

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fjkzpm/daily_general_discussion_september_18_2024/lnps1qu/)

Interesting news on the application front. I came across Rarimo protocol, which is building ZK passport-based voting. In this post, I'll concentrate on proof of identity aspect of voting. Proof of identity is a stronger guaranty than proof of personhood.

I've been intrigued in leveraging government issued documents as a proof of identity for a while. Yes, government issued. Blasphemy! First of all, I've been disappointed with current web3 approaches to proof of identity. Ones based on monetary incentives - “If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” Social recovery - not that I delved too deep - seems gameable. Dedicated piece of hardware to scan biometric features - maybe. Think about it, which entities have always had the problem with uniquely identifying a person? Who are the incumbent identity providers? Governments, banks, and lately IT companies like Google, Twitter, FB...("Sign in with Google"...).

Right of the bat, IT company's proof of identity is shit. You can easily sibyl it. Banks - much beater. Having a bank card pretty much means you are a person or a legal entity and not a bot. Nobody can take your money if they don't scam you. Thing is, banks rely on government issued documents. Who caries the burden of identifying a person from the moment they are born? Can they enroll in a school? Can they cross a border? Did they pay taxes? Are the eligible for health care? Important stuff, right? Governments have been doing this for a long time. They have institutions on institutions for making sure that you are who you say you are. The world works thanks to them having done a decent job.

As we enter the third millennium, machine readable government documents have become a thing. Biometric passports are standardized (ICAO Doc 9303). Almost all the countries in the world now issue passports compliant with this protocol.

Rarimo developed the Freedom tool - opensource, ZK powered, mobile app which scans your passport and creates a user profile. It claims to preserve authenticity, eligibility, anonymity and uniqueness. The whitepaper addressed security claims and assumptions.

Thanks to ZK proofs, you could prove claims about yourself, without giving away unnecessary personal information. You could prove that you are of legal age, without giving away any other info, including your identity. Are you a resident of certain country? Are you human and not a bot?

Proper digital identity unlocks a lot of applications web3 people have been talking about: voting, reputation systems, user profiles, social networks...These are the use cases which cannot be tackled with crypto-economics alone. What do you think?

Edit: grammar.

Edit 2: short demo video.

u/benido2030 makes a good point about hardware wallets and u/haurog builds off their comment.

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fkd3pr/daily_general_discussion_september_19_2024/lnv4luq/)

u/benido2030:

I am bearish hardware wallets. Obviously smart contract wallets are getting way better, which is one reason. But if a nation state can manipulate 1000s of small electronic devices and people don't find out until it's too late, they can manipulate hardware wallets as well.

This is just a general thought. But be aware of the risks.

The only thing I can say is that when you become a target of one of the larger 3 letter agencies or equivalent governmental (emphasis on 'mental') agencies of some countries there is pretty much nothing you can do. They will get to you, get all your assets and only if you go to the most extreme lengths you might be able to prevent that.

We know since the Snowden revelations that the NSA has an internal catalogue where you can order 'replacement' parts which then get exchanged during shipment of an order to the target. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANT_catalog This is happening by diverting the shipment to a unknown location, replace part of the electronics device with an NSA produced one and then continue the shipment to the customer which obviously is not aware of any diversions or replacements. As far as I remember they also had ready made casing which included a spy device for the most popular laptops and electronic devices.

I guess the same thing could happen with a hardware wallet. But to be honest I expect it to be easier for them to monitor your used wallets, get a list of your addresses and get to the seed phrases afterwards when they arrest you. Most people will have it written down somewhere. Sure you can always just keep your seed phrase in your head (brainwallet) but I guess only a very small fraction of crypto users really go that far.

For them getting in your hot wallet will probably be easier than attacking a hardware wallet. So, a hot wallet is not safer at all.

If the goal is to attack the chain itself by compromising thousands of hardware wallets. I am pretty sure they could do that. Not sure what the legality of this would be, but hey as history and current events show these agencies have a different legal rulebook than most of us have to follow.

I still think having hardware wallet in some form is one of the best defense one can have. Normal hackers will not be able to get to the private keys as they ideally never leave the device (hello ledger). If you pair it with a smart contract multisig wallet where an attacker would have to attack several hot wallets or even hardware wallets at the same time I deem it pretty much impossible that you will lose your ETH due to a supply chain attack.

u/Ber10 explains why the ratio matters

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fjkzpm/daily_general_discussion_september_18_2024/lnr0t2r/)

The ratio matters for me because objectively Ethereum is better at everything that Bitcoin does. There is no reason why Bitcoin is a better SoV. And this reality has to be reflected in the ratio at some point. BTC is very flawed and is not sustainable. A BTC failure without profound change is inevitable. It is absolutely perplexing that the market does not realize this. I dont care about Dollar price as much because I think the crypto space realizing whats important is the first step on the journey. I care about the ratio because it reflects the market realizing rational facts.

Its not about money. I care about the future of human society and about the improvement of our society. And I honestly believe that only Ethereum can deliver a credibly neutral trustless financial system a bedrock for finance that can not be corrupted. I want this platform to succeed because it will improve the world. Finally a level playing field that can be set up in a way that empowers people and organizations and stops corrupt governments. Its can be a counterweight for fraud and corruption and government overreach.

That is why I am into crypto. That is my main focus. So I care aboout the ratio because Bitcoin is the wrong way. And Solana is the wrong way as none of them can deliver what is needed.

A financial system that is trustless and can cater to the entire planet. Ethereum is on its way to achieve this. Aslong as Bitcoin ratio is so bad it means people are not realizing what the purpose of blockchain technology is and people did not realize what tools they have at their disposal to manage their finances in a way that can not be tampered with.

Yes obviously we are not there yet, Ethereum has many many flaws, but we are on the path to it. And the ratio is an indicator for blockchain technology to actually fullfill its purpose.

Holding coins that can not be deflated (Bitcoin will fail at this btw) is just part of the equation. People using crypto for everything that banks usually do for crypto to replace centralized systems. That is what I want. I want traditional companies to be either replaced or reorganized on Ethereum rails. I want the upper people to slowly distribute their power to more people.

Blockchain did not achieve anything yet. Its just the start the very first day of a century long journey. And the ratio is an indicator when we are out of phase 1. Realizing why blockchains are valuable. We are still in Phase 1 where the people do not know why blockchain is important.

For me its not about money. Its about change. And the ratio is an indicator for that change.

If Ethereum does not flip Bitcoin. Then blockchains are useless and its really just a speculative meme coin casino. And nothing more.

Bitcoin for me is the nr1 meme coin. It has a strong narrative but it fails at real world utility and is not designed to be sustainable long term. It needs centralized entities to offer services thus the fact that its decentralized matters only in so far that it cant be inflated arbitrarily. However the security of the protocol is dependent on the inflation so the system is about to fail.

Ethereum flipping Bitcoin and Ethereum becoming the most expensive asset on this planet is when we will be able to see crypto change the world profoundly. And thats all I want. Everything else. Is just secondary. I do have enough money. I dont need a Bugatti. I do have a job. I want Ethereum specifically to be a guarantee for a free and open Internet/monetary system that can not be censored. I want entitities like EU China America Google Facebook Apple AGI to not have total control to have to deal with a platform that they can not censor and that wont be corrupted by them. I want Ethereum to be that strong. We are not there yet but we could be one day. And flipping Bitcoin is the first step on that journey.

Seems outlandish but this was the reason why I even got interested in Crypto in the first place. The prospect of that happening. And Bitoin dropped the ball by ossifying too early and just focusing on an unsustainable inflation schedule.

u/Tricky_Troll made some cool new user flairs

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fhwp53/daily_general_discussion_september_16_2024/lnitff3/)

A good while ago I told you all I am slow to get around to things but I wanted to add some default user flairs. Well, as prophesied, I was indeed slow to get round to it. But lo and behold, we now have default user flairs!

The new ones have some colour where the old custom ones didn't. Custom ones are still an option, they just won't be as colourful as the default flairs. Also, these default ones should give us a good idea of your vibe. if you're new, a TA guy, long term investor etc. Hopefully we can get a better feel for what angle you're coming from when you make a post here. At the end of the day we want less conflict and hopefully a bit of context as to your leanings might help a bit. If not, it's still just a bit of fun. Feel free to grab a meme flair if that's your style!

Finally, I'm happy to add some more, so let me know what you want to see added and maybe even a colour request (send me ur hex codes 😉). Though I think we might reserve one colour for the mods. Maybe we can colour coordinate our flairs. Currently it's a bright ugly shade of blue so you're not missing out on much.

#78: September 13, 2024

Special guest Jason joins us from Puffer Finance, a liquid restaking protocol.

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ffmt2l/comment/lmvu2es/)

Ethereum

$2347.90

0.04056

Most popular questions in the EF AMA right now:

90,849 hodlers subscribed (-1)

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1feun79/comment/lmtuzby/)

Beating up the polls,

Not giving up owner roles,

ZK among goals.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1feun79/comment/lms19kz/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: u/Wurstgewitter

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fbq2nu/daily_general_discussion_september_8_2024/lm37s8b/)

I recently got to feel like a whale, I sold a larger amount on CB, like 100k, on the USDC/EUR pair which is rather low volume.

Here’s how it went:

I put it up in a single sell wall, shadowing over the puny trades of the mere mortals. Every bid and ask before mine paled in comparison. There it stood, a monolith, looming over the market.

As soon as the order hit the books my counterparties must’ve recoiled in shock. Who was the nameless entity, willing to dump a vast fortune in a single breath? Whispers filled the market - has a whale arrived? Has Megalodon decided to feast?

At this point, time stood still. I have become death, maker of the markets. A force to be reckoned with, altering the fabric of the order book itself.

Who would be brave enough to challenge my creation?

Eventually, all monuments must fall, but the battle was one for the history books. At first only a few daring souls nibbled away at the edges of my fortress. But after the market overcame the initial shock, larger buyers emerged, each of their trades echoing like hammer strikes against the stone of my stronghold.

It should not go down easy though, over the course of 6 long hours and 211 individual fills, they relentlessly dismantled my towering order, brick by brick. An epochal amount of time in the fast paced crypto realm.

Finally, when the dust settled, and the sun rose, only rumors remained of what once stood tall. Another testimony to the patience of the market, able to move even the biggest mountains, with enough time.

u/Ethical-trade spots the theme in the EF Dev AMA questions and expresses caution

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/lllo8ra/)

Value accrual thesis
Lowering blob fee?
Driving value to eth
Blob fee pricing

The community push for increasing blob fees has me a bit worried tbh, I still think this would be an extremely bad move. Not going into the details again today but 2 weeks ago I detailed why I believe free blob fees + zero rollup congestion are fantastic combo for institutional adoption. One that's needed.

Then a couple of days later Sony announced the launch of an Ethereum rollup. Our first non crypto native rollup ever. Fantastic news. This confirmed what future Ethereum adoption will look like: companies with huge user bases will bring millions of users at once. Just like Base brings us 4 million weekly active addresses. Not gaining users one at a time. Millions at a time. Millions per institution, millions per rollup.

And then, a few days ago, Solana makes a 180° pivot from calling L2s parasitic and announces it now supports L2s. Rebrands them "network extensions".

Please take a second to wonder: why would Solana pivot to L2s right now?

At a moment when overall blockchain activity is moderate at best?

Could it be that Sony made them realize Ethereum is about to onboard one institution after the other? That the only way they'll compete is by faking their way into L2 adoption partnerships?

This is why the community push for blob fees worries me:

The only reason Solana got any traction to begin with is because Ethereum L1 fees were way too high in the past. That's what drove users to less decentralized lands.

Do we really want to make the same mistake again and offer an opportunity to Solana's L2s to gain any sort of traction? Not because we needed to but because we got greedy with our own few L2s?

Ethereum should do what a market leader does: grow the market as fast as possible and cash in when the whole world is in.

u/haurog introduces us to EVM Object Format or EOF

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f9ef5k/daily_general_discussion_september_5_2024/llleobx/)

For people wanting to know what EOF is and does, this is the most comprehensive discussion I have seen about it yet:

https://xcancel.com/uttam_singhk/status/1830526179105001771

or

https://twitter.com/uttam_singhk/status/1830526179105001771

It was shared by a Nethermind dev who works on EOF a few days ago, so I think it is technically accurate. It is a 30 minute video going through the why, the scope, the improvements, the changes and also addresses some of the criticism. It is definitely worth a watch as it gets pretty deep into the weeds, but he manages to explain it reasonably well. Some things were over my head, but I definitely learned a lot.

In short EOF helps to better store smart contract code on chain by adding a header and ordering code and date sections. Interestingly this even reduces codes size by a few %. EOF does many validation checks during deployment instead of runtime, which can prevent some DOS attacks and might also help to increase the max size of smart contracts again (https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/blob/master/EIPS/eip-170.md). It also contains many smaller quality of life improvements for solidity developers. Some new calls are also introduced to interact with external contracts which improve efficiency. Overall the EOF improvements are rather complex and the disadvantage is that the legacy contracts still need to be supported which increases complexity by duplicating some of the logic. This means it will take a lot of testing to make sure things work correctly.

All in all most people do not really need to change anything for this upgrade it will all be handled in the background. I think if you are a solidity dev you will have to learn a few more call functions but otherwise there is also not too much to do. I personally think EOF improvements are a very good step forward for the EVM.

u/nixorokish shares the next step in her crypto journey

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fcho6q/daily_general_discussion_september_9_2024/lmbwesp/)

Wanna share here - starting today, I'm going to be working with Protocol Support at the EF

https://x.com/nixorokish/status/1833209686272971079

r/ethfinance is where I started as crazy eth lady 🔧 (well... really r/ethtrader but I donut know if that matters). EthStaker is where being active in this sub took me. Volunteering and then working with EthStaker has been an insanely good decision in my life. I'm so crazy excited and happy to be working with insanely smart and creative people I admire greatly.

This community is the first good home I found in crypto <3

u/superphiz has been doing some thinking about fundamental constructs and u/LogrisTheBard also shares his thoughts on the matter

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fcho6q/daily_general_discussion_september_9_2024/lm9dlb6/)

u/superphiz:

I've been thinking about these words from /u/BuyETHorDAI:

The longer I'm in this space, the more I dislike tokens in general, but maybe I'm just jaded.

It causes me to wonder: What are the vital constructs of web3? It's hard to set aside price and market performance and just consider this question. Right now they seem to be coins, tokens, and NFTs, and everyone hates tokens and NFTs right now because they're salty about prices being down, but the question remains - ARE these the three fundamental constructs of web3? Are any of them truly irrelevant and going to die away? Are we missing more constructs?

I really don't know the answer, I'm just running it through my own mind. I could easily be convinced that they are the only fundamental constructs, or that we have too many or too few.

EVMavericks Weekly Recap (Sept 2-8)

u/LogrisTheBard:

I think on-chain governance software is and will be indispensable. Code needs to be upgraded. How do we do that with so much at stake as safely as possible?

Otherwise I think tokens just represent digital ownership and are one of the best product fits blockchains have found. It's hard to hate on the concept of ownership, even if you may not like the distribution of ownership amongst all people. Changes of ownership often use what we consider financial tools which is basically all of Defi. That's not going away either.

I think we'll continue to see the proliferation of personal digital spaces. You were just talking about the base profile system yesterday. I mentioned layer3 a few weeks ago. Guild is another one. I think curating a digital identity is something most people understand from Facebook and will be better served when done on a system that isn't explicitly manipulating you with the data you give it.

The last thing I think will become vital on chain is peer to peer services. Payment will often be part of this so it will be intrinsically linked to the chain but you'll be able to pair yourself with someone willing to do something for you using the chain as a matchmaking service. This is pretty much all DePin and AVSs to start but I see little reason these systems couldn't be expanded to non-digital services eventually.

u/imaybeslow explains the things they want to see Ethereum revolutionising

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fcho6q/daily_general_discussion_september_9_2024/lmckiov/)

I can see ethereum impacting so many facets of life, but here are some that I would love to see personally:

Transaction settlement becomes faster and cheaper, with more assurances. I no longer wait 3-5 business days for something to clear. I’ll have the stablecoins in my account and know that it’s there. Cross-border payments no longer take a big % fee and several days to finalize (as someone who has lived abroad but been paid in USD this was very frustrating).

Tokenize the world. Deeds. Royalties. IOUs. Licenses. Securities. Tickets. I see tokens as a hyper-efficient form of a wrapper, much like ETFs are for the financial world.

Reduced communication and coordination friction. Especially when coordinating across time zones or governments. Ideally DAOs take form, but even without DAOs the ability to coordinate digitally worldwide with effective anti-Sybil features (via introducing costs or incentives) is amazing. Got a taste of it with ICOs before regulators shut that down, and fledgling communities around NFTs hint at what is possible.

Decentralized exchanges. If we indeed tokenize the world, exchanges allow free market forces to find efficient solutions. In fact I was not sold on Ethereum until I looked into smart contracts, and when I realized what DEXs were capable of I became fully on board. But more than just shitcoin roulette, I want to see a future where one can trade currencies, assets, community access, etc., with more freedom and less cost than currently possible.

There’s a lot more that I’m excited to see implemented, like personal privacy and public transparency, freedom of expression, the digital empires that are built now that digital ownership is enforceable. But that’s enough rambling from me already.

u/imaybeslow explains the things they want to see Ethereum revolutionising

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fcho6q/daily_general_discussion_september_9_2024/lmckiov/)

I can see ethereum impacting so many facets of life, but here are some that I would love to see personally:

Transaction settlement becomes faster and cheaper, with more assurances. I no longer wait 3-5 business days for something to clear. I’ll have the stablecoins in my account and know that it’s there. Cross-border payments no longer take a big % fee and several days to finalize (as someone who has lived abroad but been paid in USD this was very frustrating).

Tokenize the world. Deeds. Royalties. IOUs. Licenses. Securities. Tickets. I see tokens as a hyper-efficient form of a wrapper, much like ETFs are for the financial world.

Reduced communication and coordination friction. Especially when coordinating across time zones or governments. Ideally DAOs take form, but even without DAOs the ability to coordinate digitally worldwide with effective anti-Sybil features (via introducing costs or incentives) is amazing. Got a taste of it with ICOs before regulators shut that down, and fledgling communities around NFTs hint at what is possible.

Decentralized exchanges. If we indeed tokenize the world, exchanges allow free market forces to find efficient solutions. In fact I was not sold on Ethereum until I looked into smart contracts, and when I realized what DEXs were capable of I became fully on board. But more than just shitcoin roulette, I want to see a future where one can trade currencies, assets, community access, etc., with more freedom and less cost than currently possible.

There’s a lot more that I’m excited to see implemented, like personal privacy and public transparency, freedom of expression, the digital empires that are built now that digital ownership is enforceable. But that’s enough rambling from me already.

u/696_eth rounds up the last weeks in EVMavericks

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fda31e/daily_general_discussion_september_10_2024/lmg0e2o/)

Your weekly EVMavericks catch-up: highlights of the week!

Degen chat covers NFTs and what's worth buying, some airdrop potentials. Pooltogether and their insane APR are discussed.
JT hosts Weekly Doots Livestream #77
bbroad is leading the way in applying for grants. This time it's gitcoin+octant community round.
Still a decent amount of chatter about new platforms, new coins, accumulation phase, another potential politifi seaason, pumpfun and volume.

Calls of the week:

~8x+ $clippy by GreenGeorge

~6x $IRS by whatthefuck.eth

~4x+ $FARM by whatthefuck.eth

~2x $worth by whatthefuck.eth
Farmers talk about blobs, Monad, elixyr, Eigen and more.
heeey appears on an episode of 'get to know EVMavericks'.
A new member - moonie.eth - joined EVMavericks this last week.
New EVM multisig election is on the horizon. We are in need of signers!
Lots of activity in our general public chat. Mostly talks about the market with some bullish sentiment being sprinkled in.

Lastly, your weekly security reminder: here are a few guides!

EVMavericks discord has a security channel. You can literally mute everything else but that channel and only get notifications from there.
Reminder for all the folks: we have a daily-discussion channel in the discord that's open to public and there's a decent amount of activity there!

u/alexiskef covers a genius NFT heist

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fe29xd/daily_general_discussion_september_11_2024/lmomzq4/)

I just read a VERY cool NFT (Punk) story on X. While you can click on the link and read the tweets, I have assembled them all here!

📜

Today happened one of the biggest crypto punk heists of all time. Someone with a lot of patience and knowledge just bought ape 2386 for 10 ETH.

Once upon a time when fractionalisation was en vogue, ape 2386 was fractionalised and valued at like 450 ETH. This happened on a now dysfunctional site called niftex. The ape stayed fractionalised even after they shut down as it was in an escrow contract. 10000 shares were all distributed between loads of people. And a buyout was not possible. Until now..

The contract worked in a way that if you propose a buyout, a 14 day grace period was initiated where the rest of the shareholders had time to ponder and accept or reject it. 14 days ago someone made a proposal for .001 eth per share. It was not rejected and went through.. Buying price: 10 ETH (last apes sold for 620 eth, 3.3k eth and 2.69k eth)

🤯

Tech Dive here! (pasting it below)

Punk 2386, with a current high bid of 600 eth, sold for 10 ETH today. A combination of clever sleuthing, followed by an unfortunate miscalculation lead to a 7 figure payday for 0x282.

This ape punk was fractionalized into 10,000 ERC20 tokens on 9/26/2020, and spread out among what is now 257 holders.

This was done on a now decommissioned platform called niftex (the contracts continue to live forever).The setup is such that any shareholder can propose a "shotgun", whereby any shareholder can propose a buyout price, and if nobody counters, they can purchase the asset after 14 days.0x282 initiated a shotgun on 8/28 (14 days ago).

Some people took notice, including at least two shardholders. One put it off because they thought they had more time, but the other (@gmoneyNFT) made an attempt to block.. In order to block the buyout, you must effectively purchase the proposer's shares at higher than their proposed price.

0x282 proposed a price of 0.001 eth per share (10 eth for all shares), so a valid counter needed to be 0.0010000001, as defined by the shotgun contract. gmoney submitted a counterclaim of 0.000001 ETH (1000000000000 wei), just short of the requirement.
At this point, if any other shareholder had contributed 10,000 wei (two TEN TRILLIONTHS of a cent) to the counterclaim, the shotgun would have been blocked. But two ten trillionths of a cent was not committed, the shotgun was not blocked, and 0x282 walks away with the steal of the century: 1 of only 24 ape punks, for 70% under the global punk floor.
🔥

u/Tricky_Troll wants to keep it wholesome in here

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fe29xd/daily_general_discussion_september_11_2024/lmoqcvh/)

Tough pills to swallow

Throwing shade and vitriol at TA people won't make the ratio any better.

I personally (not speaking for the mod team) would like to see less hate for certain users or types of posts. When JT and the other OG mods founded this subreddit they did a stellar job in fostering a positive and welcoming community, even in the darkest of times price wise. I would like to encourage people not to take out their frustrations on others. I get it, you don't think TA means anything and you're probably right, but that doesn't justify vilifying people posting TA here or a YouTuber who has been calling for the ratio to "come home" back to 0.03 or 0.04.

I wouldn't even say I'm siding with the TA folks here, in fact I've expressed not being super approving of some TA and also bashing on the semi-predatory paid private group model which folks like Ben Cowen use which has simply never sat right with me (but to be fair, it is better than shilling bybit leverage affiliate links etc). Anyway, I feel caught in the middle. I don't really side with anyone but I'm sick of the negativity of people picking on certain names and types of content. One side of this debate is constantly being angry and bashing people while the other just stays quiet and often times leaves altogether and that's not right. This is a subreddit which is welcome to all. So can we please just chill out a bit and keep it a bit more wholesome?

It's always personal attacks and bold claims about TA working or not working and never any evidence to back it up. Baseless rants just spread negativity and makes this place a lot less welcoming which is against the subreddit's ethos. If you must go on a crusade against TA, at least find some peer reviewed papers which prove that it is bullshit or something because I'm yet to see anyone do anything like that when talking about this topic and I say that as someone who is very much a TA skeptic. At the very least one could go back and review all the TA posts here and sum up how many of them were right/wrong and use that as evidence (albeit low-quality evidence).

#77: September 6, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1fa76dn/comment/llr4mgm/)

u/Equal-Jellyfish1

Ethereum

$2380.90

Get to know EVMavericks #1 - Etheraider aka EVM 1209

0.04217

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f8l3t3/comment/llj3q1u/)

Go where you belong,

Knock your chest and sing along,

Apes together strong.

Shitpost of the week: u/NeedlerOP

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f4n4q0/daily_general_discussion_august_30_2024/lko8jdv/)

First they ignore you

Then they laugh at you

Then they fight you

Then you get an ETF

Then they ignore you again

Then they laugh at you again

u/CaptainLoud decided to build a cool little app

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f3uche/daily_general_discussion_august_29_2024/lkhqgln/)

Introducing https://boasty.app/ - Schedule Your Ethereum Posts

Dear ethfinance, special day for me today - after 7 years in the space, i get to show something small i built. Inspired by this u/benido2030 post last Saturday, i spent the last 5 days building Boasty. I always wanted to try building an app on Ethereum, and this idea sounded simple enough so i gave it a go and now it's live.

TLDR Pay 1 USD in stablecoin and schedule a post on Ethereum, you get a https://boasty.app permalink to reference and share which contains your published message and transactions associated. See an example here

The app is an MVP but everything works as far as i can tell. It is currently permissioned, meaning the messages are stored in a centralized database and no smart contracts yet, but as you can see on the roadmap, I intend to introduce message storing on IPFS, smart contract(s), sha256 hashed messages with auto or user reveal, supporting more wallets (currently only tested with Metamask), L2 networks and hopefully more.

Last but not least, I'd like to make the app free to post for my fellow solo stakers and the /r/ethfinance community (EVM holders for now?). Happy to hear any ideas on how to make this happen!

Feedback appreciated, feel free to say it like it is and try to break the app. I am not on crypto twitter or any of those, so if you like it, please share it! Thanks u/benido2030 for the idea!

u/696_eth started a new EVM series

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f4n4q0/daily_general_discussion_august_30_2024/lkriq80/)

Started a new series. As always, subscribe to EVMavericks' paragraph to get all new content immediately when it is out! I hope you enjoy!

Hi, what do you go by and what's your EVMavericks #?

Hey, this is Etheraider and I’m EVM 1209.

Who or what introduced you to crypto?

My brother bought into ETH in 2015, held for 2 years, and sold right before the 2017 bull run. I didn’t know anything about crypto until I saw he missed out on life-changing gains, so I decided to learn from his mistake!

How and when did you find your way into EVMs?

Well, actually, I was there at the very beginning and helped bring EVMavericks to the blockchain!

So it's been a couple of years since the beginning; what made you stay?

I think we're one of the best communities of OGs on Ethereum—a lot of good people around with all sorts of talent, perspective, and experience in the space. It’s a good place to be.

What's your best EVMavericks memory?

There are a lot of good ones. But I’d say that first EVM podcast we launched, where many of us (who knew each other only on Reddit for years) “talked” together for the first time. It was awesome.

What are you most excited about EVMs looking forward?

In the short term, I’m looking forward to us getting into the Octant funding round. In the long term, I’m excited to see future endeavors our community members will pursue!

What is your favorite hobby or way to spend time outside of crypto?

Well, this past year, I got really into going to the gym and living a healthier lifestyle. Decided to place an emphasis on taking care of my mind, body, and soul! As far as hobbies go, I’m a big fan of disc golf, tabletop board games, and ping pong!

What one piece of advice would you give to someone who's just getting into crypto?

Learn about why crypto exists, how powerful its impact can be, and how it can dramatically change all our lives for the better.

Any piece of alpha that you can share with us? It can be anything, not just crypto-related.

When you’re on your deathbed, are you gonna care about how much money you’ve made or how nice your house/cars/etc. are? No. The only thing you’ll care about is the people you love and the impact you’ve had on them. Don’t wait until then to go all in on the people you love.

Lastly, is there anything else you wanna share? Maybe a project you are working on? Latest accomplishments? Whatever you want! The stage is yours Etheraider!

In a time such as this, where the world is so crazy, divided, and full of darkness, my favorite verse to quote is this: “The light has entered the world, and the darkness has NOT overcome it.”

u/JebediahKholin highlights 3 issues for ETH this year

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f4n4q0/daily_general_discussion_august_30_2024/lkp52q3/)

It seems like ETH has 3 big problems this year.

Airdrop flop - the hype for eigenlayer and others was completely unreal, while the airdrops themselves were a terrible combination of stingy and overpriced. If a token launches at its best possible market cap, there's nowhere to go but down, especially if there are gigantic unlocks coming. Tokens were a lot more interesting when you had a real chance at making a killing at buying something that seemed like it had real fundamentals or promise. If some hyper-complicated protocol launches at an insane valuation, there are going to be very few buyers - it's too complicated for non-crypto natives, the upside is already priced in, and people are going to want to unload the tokens. So every new token has pretty much gotten crushed. tough way to build market hype.
ETF Flop - The BTC ETF set up some incredible expectations, but ETH matching it was always going to be an issue. BTC got huge early inflows from crypto-natives wanting to offload some of their unchain coins so they don't have to worry about custody. It makes a lot of sense from a diversification perspective, and there's basically nothing to do with unchain bitcoin, anyway. Institutions/financial advisors are much more slow moving, but the retail buyers disguised this. This was huge for bitcoins narrative and expanded its presence among the broader world. ETH, by contrast, will only be bought in the ETF by those who really can't interact with onchain infrastructure - basically, financial advisors, institutions, 401ks, which all take a long time to spin up. Holding ETH onchain is valuable, so there's a real cost to using the ETF instead. This makes sense to us, but makes ETH look bad to the tradfi world/retail, furthering the narrative that there's bitcoin as the main crypto, and then there's everything else. While this is disputed by the fundamentals, the fundamentals are complicated. Narrative is tough.
Solana meme coins - memecoins on Solana have been a retail incinerator. They look appealing - zero transaction fees that let you avoid extractive vc coins - but the reality is that Solana's centralized validator, sequencer, and MEV setup allows for colossal extraction, while the meme coins themselves allow for easily faked volume metrics and huge insider dumping. It's hard to imagine a worse market to participate in. However, the notable crypto influencers are some of the only people making money off this, so they pound the table about how great Solana is. VCs are (and have always been) huge owners of Solana, so they. ALSO pound the table on how great sol is/how bad etc is. So Solana is stealing retail mindshare while impoverishing everyone who uses the chain. It's a bad outcome.

So what does ETH need to re-attract retail? Yield farming and gambling. Onchain options that are actually liquid. New tokens launching quickly (as a quasi ico while avoiding being direct icos) at low valuations so that some momentum can build. Tokens that actually result in cash flow when staked, so that people have an actual reason to buy/speculate on them.

What ETH REALLY needs is to capture mindshare from bitcoin as a pristine non-sovereign store of value. ETH should be fighting with bitcoin and gold, not with Solana. Solana as a network may be great (I don't think it is but ignore that for now) but SOL the token is complete garbage unless things change dramatically.

u/HSuke recaps Vitalik's impromptu AMA

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f5fiqc/daily_general_discussion_august_31_2024/lkus89q/)

Vitalik Buterin started an unofficial AMA last weekend on Warpcast after he posted about stablecoin decentralization on X

TL;DR of the original X post:

DEX: great
Decentralized Stablecoins: great
Polymarket: great
Semi-decentralized Stablecoin like USDC: Not great, but they're a practical and convenient necessity. The issuer is centralized, but the rest of on-chain use is decentralized
Anything that has no sustainability like "decentralized" liquidity farming or yield farming: Very bad. The key reason is lack of sustainability. These are just get-rich schemes.
It's not enough to only have finance on blockchains. It needs more real applications outside of finance
Useful related post: https://vitalik.eth.limo/general/2023/11/27/techno_optimism.html

These are the highlights from the Warpcast AMA response to that X post:

I've paraphrased the important parts of some of the longer questions and responses

Q: Banana Milk or Chocolate Milk?
Vit: Coconut milk is best, almond if I can't find coconut. I don't drink either independently, I put it into stuff, and that stuff in question ends up containing bananas and dark chocolate at roughly equal frequencies (usually both)

Q: Do you have any heuristic for when compromises to decentralized principles go too far for stablecoins?
Vit: My main worry is when they start entrenching network effects that become hard to undo. For example, if we start normalizing "sign in to this crypto social thing with Google", I think that's really bad, UNLESS it's done in an account-abstraction way where under the hood it's using zk-email and individual users can sign in with their ethereum account instead (and convert their account from one to the other). This way, it's not entrenching network effects of centralized web2 platforms, it's actually creating a bridge that lets users join the ecosystem with them, but then more easily migrate away from them.

Q: Last TV series you watched? And if you liked it
Vit: "Three Body Problem" was good
My opinion: Hell yeah! Lots of Ethereum devs are "Dark Forest" fans due to its parallels with Ethereum MEV. Personally, I would recommend the Netflix adoption over the gigantic Chinese soap opera one, but neither series has reached the "Dark Forest" book yet.

Q: Do you prefer °C to °F?
Vit: I prefer C, but it's a weaker preference than all the other units. I would gladly take a trade of switching to F in exchange for never hearing about either feet/miles or ounces/pounds again.

Q: How can we offer decentralized access to content? Http is not good enough any more. Ipfs feels unusable when it comes to normal users (without http gateways). Thoughts?
Vit: We need browsers with IPFS integrated. Brave was supposed to be that, but unfortunately its IPFS gateway is quite slow so I never end up using it.
My opinion: Agreed. I hate how difficult and slow it is to access IPFS gateways via browser extensions. IPFS is barely accessible unless you pay for premium gateway services.

Q: [Pure decentralization is overrated] Farcaster, Base, and Telegram have a decentralized foundation, but were built by centralized teams.
Vit: If the team behind Farcaster didn't build and market Warpcast, we wouldn't be here now. The use cases we want Ethereum to take on need the centralized approach to grow, but are placed on a decentralized foundation.
My opinion: Agreed. Almost nothing we do in crypto is purely decentralized, and that would be an unrealistic expectation. We would never be able trust anything on-chain without prior off-chain trust for the teams that build those protocols. That is, unless user were a senior crypto developer with code-auditing expertise, which is ridiculous requirement.

Q: Do you see usdc overtaking cashapp, apple pay and the likes as a generally acceptable form of payment
Vit: I think we need to have easy to use ethereum-ecosystem-wide L2 payments first for that to happen.

Source: https://warpcast.com/vitalik.eth/0xa3ad7913

u/iscaacsi motivates us to do stuff while we're feeling down

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f5fiqc/daily_general_discussion_august_31_2024/lkxs0gz/)

There has been a lot of posts of people feeling down recently. My honest response to this is stop looking at numbers and make something for the fun of it. If you can code write contracts that do something fun. If you can design then make mockups for weird fictional games. If you can write, publish an article about a future society where eth never existed. Start playing with apps. use things. break things. find the glitches, the edges. look in the mirror. uniswap backwards is pawsinu. What if the aave ghost is haunting the chain? How many times have people sent exactly 0.666 eth? What if we start calling them nifties again instead of nft? can we make bingo on base?

there is so much for us to do. now it is september. summer lull is over. what is dead may never die 🐙

u/Ethical-trade explain why blobs are down but transactions are still up

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f66n0f/daily_general_discussion_september_1_2024/lkz7awh/)

At the same time transaction count is near ATH and active addresses maintained pretty well throughout the summer. The main reason why blobs seem to go down is thanks to optimizations by L2s.

Showing the market that Ethereum has room to grow is absolutely needed, if we were near saturation today we wouldn't have institutional rollups tomorrow.

u/cryptrd285 doesn't see much space for competition

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f66n0f/daily_general_discussion_september_1_2024/ll2qd0o/)

This is like a vampire attack we used to see during 2020 - 2021 defi time frame. I kind of like this thought process

https://x.com/CloutedMind/status/1830405365898580245

i take the stance that blobs being 0 fee is bullish

it chokes competition

DA is ultimately a race to 0 anyway, might as well weaponize DA as loss leader to expand ethereum GDP

not only does it tell all these DA layoors to go fk themselves like TIA etc, it chokes any ethereum L2 competitors

no longer can an alt-L1 use "cheaper" as a selling point, only "faster" and "more decentralized" (than an L2)

i think soon we see L2s that be "faster" like megaETH and then we get 2/3

then as the roadmap for L2s go along and they become more permissionless without centralization risks we tick 3/3 (cheaper, faster and more decentralized with the inherent security of eth)

then where does an alt-l1 compete ? it doesnt.. its just L2 vs L2 and its all on ethereum

and ETH is their money

thats moat

u/696_eth brings us the EVMavericks weekly recap

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f6yl0k/daily_general_discussion_september_2_2024/ll7tsxu/)

EVMavericks Weekly Recap (August 26-September 1)

https://reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1f81ntr/ama_we_are_ef_research_pt_12_05_september_2024

Catch up on a week's worth of, mostly, Discord content: get some inside scoop and the feel of our vibes. For all the details, visit directly our Discord.

We voted for Doots Podcast and Aestus MEV Relay in the Octant's snapshot and both projects made it to the upcoming Epoch 5 allocation window!
JT hosts Weekly Doots Livestream #76
696 hosts a new series: get to know EVMavericks. First episode with Etheraider is out now.
GreenGeorge starts a thread asking lions about one project that really excites them.
interweaver shares that Starknet has undergone a massive upgrade, now introducing 2-second transactions and it's making a big difference for projects like Influence.
cybersea published a website about their artistic journey
Degen chat has a little bit of everything this week. Some base mints, some random stats, some talk about Maker, some memes ofc.
Memecoins have slowed down, but people still share some useful tools and degen TG groups. Generally, there's a lot of chatter about coins, the market, and vibes. Discussions include safer memes and strategies for longer meme team positions. The top play of the week features Etheraider longing ETH, with several other lions following suit

Lastly, your weekly security reminder: here’s a few guides!

EVMavericks discord has a security channel. You can literally mute everything else but that channel and only get notifications from there.
Reminder for all the folks: we have a daily-discussion channel in the discord that's open to public and there's a decent amount of activity there!

u/wolfparking reminds us of the upcoming Ethereum Foundation AMA

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f7rrbo/daily_general_discussion_september_3_2024/llcn0b7/)

Ethereumn Foundation is doing an AMA on 9/5, get your Q's ready and post them here:

u/Kallukoras dodged a bullet and starts a conversation about risk

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f8l3t3/daily_general_discussion_september_4_2024/llgh79n/)

Yesterday night I was devastated, I have a big part of my funds in Penpie a yield aggregator for pendle and it was exploited yesterday evening.

I saw an an alert on twitter and was hoping I would be not affected. But the asset rsweth that was my main holding in one of their LPs was part of it. I had the worst night.

I found out today that only one of the two rsweth pools was exploited, the bigger one with higher tvl and apy, the smaller one that also gets swell L2 points(the reason I was in it) but less yield was not drained and I was spared by pure luck, I guess the attacker focussed on the higher TVL Pools. I should be okay when withdrawals open again. I can still be part of ethfinance and all the crazy ups and downs.

I don’t want to experience that again, is there a safe way to get some yield at least? Or should I just stick by pure ETH on a ledger secured cold wallet? Or maybe rETH?

Losing your funds like this would be the worst, it is worse then (controlled)leverage trading and shitcoin trading because everything could be gone without an error of your own , besides trusting a protocol you should not have trusted.

One small advantage I gained of that experience is I really don’t worry about the short term price action, I know we will be rewarded if we are patient and ETH will come back and we will reach new ATHs at some point.

u/defewit also discusses risk taken on for a yield, but this time compares centralised vs decentralised yield

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f8l3t3/daily_general_discussion_september_4_2024/llgvbe0/)

Posting as a top level comment a reply I was drafting to a deleted comment regarding onchain vs. tradfi "yield farming".

No doubt a large portion of "yield farming" is circular nonsense. BUT, even in the world of circular nonsense, the onchain version is transparent with respect to its risk profile and that is a consequential distinction vs. things like FTX/Celcius.

As an example, if Bernie Madoff launched a classic shitcoin yield farm with copies of battletested smart contracts, participants can trust the contracts without having to trust the person.

On the other hand, if the Pope himself started a centralized "yield farm" where I have to send him money via Western Union, the risk profile is now comparatively opaque and a million different risks must be weighed, no offense to His Holiness.

Ponzinomics aside, it's worth highlighting that more sustainable sources of yield do exist on Ethereum, think of AMM liquidity providing for example. It's making money from market making, totally normal financial service, but onchain and therefore transparent/permissionless/non-custodial/always online :)

Of course, the question of which tokens are being traded and how many have sustainable value is important for the long term viability of the ecosystem. It's a complicated question. The Ethereum economy has a lot of bullshit (just like the "regular" economy), but I think it has already "made it", there's already real activity in payments, savings, tokenization of treasuries/corporate debt, collectibles, etc.

#76: August 30, 2024

Livestream Recordings

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f4n4q0/comment/lkmjc4s/)

u/danseidansei

Ethereum

$2516.30

https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1826253901240431083

0.0425

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f29003/comment/lk8goc3/)

Storage can't go bloat,

Blockchain should not be a moat,

Accept that banknote.

Shitpost of the week: u/

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1exh5g5/daily_general_discussion_august_21_2024/lj7lmtx/)

Vitalik ETH bull post lol

Edit: it will be hilarious if this marks the bottom

u/krokodilmannchen shares Vitalik's actual — not a shitpost — bullpost

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eyb1rd/daily_general_discussion_august_22_2024/ljcvok0/)

Wake up babe, Vitalik is bull posting.

Ethereum has gotten stronger:

Under $0.01 txfees on L2

Two EVM L2s (@Optimism @arbitrum) now at stage 1

Cross-L2 wallet UX has improved a lot (eg. no more manually switching networks), though still a long way to go

Much more powerful and mature ZK tooling making life easier for app builders

Starting to see second-generation privacy tools (eg. @0xbowio)

Identity/reputation/credentials ecosystem much more powerful, and starting to actually be used more and more

Progress on STARKs leads to much clearer long-term security and decentralization story

Much more clarity on account abstraction roadmap

Much more clarity on block construction endgame (it seems to be down to FOCIL + APS vs multi-proposer)

Staking decentralization stable (see comparison charts below, the "PoS is more centralized than PoW" line has proven completely false)

The fundamentals for Ethereum are actually crazy strong right now.

https://x.com/VitalikButerin/status/1826506920393355347

u/nagus 's Ethereum thesis has remained and strengthened since 2016

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ez4fxr/daily_general_discussion_august_23_2024/ljnmoik/)

Conviction. Ethereum thesis from 2016 is unchanged; still the most decentralized blockchain, most trusted, energy efficient, second-most lindy, and the core developers have an excellent war chest even 9 years onwards as everyone here has noted today. Also, for anyone who thinks Ethereum is too big or too boring to make great risk-adjusted returns - remember that Ethereum was the second-largest market cap cryptocurrency when it was trading at $6 in Dec 2016.
ETF flows are only just about to get started with major RIAs allowed to begin allocating in the coming months - only the very most sophisticated self-directed individual investors have begun allocating in US retirement accounts.
Market liquidity from rate cuts and dxy tailwinds incoming - send it.
Regulatory environment outlook in the world's largest economy is looking better than it has ever been.
Stablecoins remain the near-term killer app and the Ethereum ecosystem is still poised to capture most of this; the world's smallest economies are adopting first on the lowest-cost blockchain solutions but the largest economies will adopt last and they will choose Ethereum-based infrastructure for a stronger security guarantee due to the larger economic risk.
Medium-term the continued rise of AI applications will provide more tailwinds for crypto as automated financial agents leverage the machine-friendly interfaces of blockchains for banking and transactions.

This is a much easier investment thesis to make than it was in 2016 and consequently is the reason I've remained close to fully invested since then.

The short-term frenzy of memecoins and L1-of-the-year technologies will continue to be eclipsed in the long-term by the secular growth of cryptocurrencies with incredible value accruing to the leaders in the space. The risk/reward profile of Ethereum is better than it has ever been..

Am I talking my book? Hell yeah I am.

u/18boro shares links to contribute to trials of Roman Storm and Aleksei Pertsev (tornado cash)

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ez4fxr/daily_general_discussion_august_23_2024/ljlefwk/)

New tweet from Roman Storm (tornado cash) today:

Folks, I have to win and it takes resources!
Please help.
Im severely underfunded for the trial.

If you have any spare ETH, consider donating to him and Aleksei Pertsev. Pertsev is already in jail, but here's some info about his situation from Ameen Soleimani https://x.com/ameensol/status/1822280721870016711

There's also NFTs to be claimed if that's your cup of tea. I'm putting up the links for their donation sites, but please do your due dilligence of course.

Roman Storm

https://juicebox.money/v2/p/618

Alexey Pertsev

https://juicebox.money/v2/p/713

u/abcoathup Eight year anniversary of Week in Ethereum News

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ezxfho/daily_general_discussion_august_24_2024/ljo3p4t/)

Latest Week in Ethereum News

🎂 Eight year anniversary

https://weekinethereumnews.com/week-in-ethereum-news-august-24-2024

Huge thank you to Evan Van Ness for 8 years of Week in Ethereum News. Evan puts in a huge amount of hours in each week to gift the Ethereum community high quality curated news.

I'm forever grateful to have played a small part in this amazing public good. 3 and a bit years editing for me.

u/Vinegar_Strokes__ Shares some critical moments in Ethereum's history

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f0opjz/daily_general_discussion_august_25_2024/ljx3saz/)

I thought this article was a pretty good read.

Give it a click if you want some content.

https://cointelegraph.com/magazine/11-critical-moments-ethereum-history-that-made-eth-no2-blockchain/

To summarize the events.

The Ethereum white paper — 2013.
The Red Wedding — 2014.
ICO and launch — 2014.
The DAO hack and Ethereum Classic — 2016.
CryptoKitties breaks Ethereum — 2017.
DeFi summer — 2020.
Rollup roadmap overhaul — October 2020.
Proof-of-stake, the Merge — September 2022.
Decun upgrade: blobs and sharing - March 2024
Blackrock - March 2024
ETF's - July 2024

u/Ethical-trade is fighting misinformation about Ethereum in other subs

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f0opjz/daily_general_discussion_august_25_2024/ljwn4nj/)

At it again today to fight misinformation in r/cc

Anytime Ethereum is mentioned there will be someone to say it's not decentralized. I'd say half of them believe it, and many of the people who read them will believe them.

I wish Ethereum had armies of people fighting disinformation like other projects have armies to create it. But it's a frustrating way of spending time.

u/696_eth is brining back the EVMavericks Weekly Recap (August 19-25) and encourages us to join in the vibes on discord

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f1g6p2/daily_general_discussion_august_26_2024/lk2lfpg/)

EVMavericks Weekly Recap (August 19-25)

Catch up on a week's worth of, mostly, Discord content: get some inside scoop and the feel of our vibes. For all the details, visit directly our Discord.

Voting for Doots Podcast in Octant's epoch 5 is live.

Big shoutout to bbroad.eth aka Ben for spearheading this opportunity for EVMavericks and r/Ethfinance!
If any mav is going to Permissionless and needs a place to stay - dm coco on discord.
Zombie is looking for 10-14 EVMs to participate in the annual Fantasy Football League. Check out one of the recent announcements in discord to find the exact place for that or just tag ZombieBP.
696 is asking around for a website creator to help out with a project for public goods. if you are one or know one - dm.
Degen chat mints base subnames.

Some talk about ENS ensues.

Tron gets degens' attention.

Attention shifts to EF and them selling ETH.

Untouchable2k reminds us about his 0xbitcoin call that's at x2 and he shares his future predictions.

GreenGeorges long TON, other mavs proceed to follow and all involved end up making some moneyz.
Our memecoins connoisseurs continue being early and hitting it consistenly. Lots of talk, it's the most active place as of recent months. Discussions from polymarket bets to long term 'safe' bets on memecoins. But most importantly, lots of plays. Of course we have some losses buuuut

Here are some top plays of the week:

~15x $suncat by eleusys

~6x $pjeet by etheraider

~5x $tiedan by eleusys

~4x $vibes by whatthefuck.eth

~2x $odong by eleusys
Decentralized onchain governance consultants aka airdrop farmers talk about the state of airdrops and whether they are going to be worth it and majority conclude that the frenzy is over for now.

GreenGeorge keeps being bullish on Hyperliquid and their ecosystem.

Hocilef shares scroll farming opportunity.

Onchainscore link is shared by dray.

And much more!
Our creative lions ain't sleeping neither. TheBenMeadows dropped his first Gamma print.
Our ETHFITNESS thread has been revived. That's for all the ETH heads who are trying to stay fit 💪
We had a mini sweep and a total of 4 buys last week.
JT hosts a ninja edition of the Weekly Doots - #75.

Lastly, your weekly security reminder: here’s a few guides!

EVMavericks discord has a security channel. You can literally mute everything else but that channel and only get notifications from there.
Reminder for all the folks: we have a daily-discussion channel in the discord that's open to public and there's a decent amount of activity there!

u/eth2353 shares some exciting new validator client news

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f29003/daily_general_discussion_august_27_2024/lk523rf/)

Today's finally the day I get to share something with you I've been working on for some time - a new validator client targeting Ethereum. It's biggest advantage is it allows you to use and combine the data from multiple beacon nodes. This allows us to use multiple client implementations at Serenita, combining their output and results in us being completely protected against single-client bugs! My hope is other operators adopt this too, resulting in a more client-diverse and resilient Ethereum.

I made an introductory tweet here , I would appreciate any likes/retweets since our Twitter presence is not that huge yet.

Some more details over on r/ethstaker, I'm happy to answer any questions here as well!

u/haurog covers the Maker rebranding and u/Stobie discusses the controversial part

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f29003/daily_general_discussion_august_27_2024/lk6hqhi/)

Makerdao rebrands as sky. The protocol is now sky protocol. You can swap MKR to SKY tokens, but you can keep your MKR if you want.

A new stablecoin called USDS is created it can be swapped from/to DAI 1:1. Not sure how long this is possible. DAI can still be used. The protocol gets officially launched on September 18.

USDS seems to have built in SKY rewards. SKY tokens will be distributed to USDS holders/protocol users.

More info on: https://forum.makerdao.com/t/sky-has-arrived/24959

Really curious how this relaunch will turn out in the coming years.

EDIT: As announced, the new USDS has a freeze function which makes it similar to USDC adn USDT: https://xcancel.com/functi0nZer0/status/1828432650152935605

Here's the video launch describing the project.

u/Stobie:

Seems strong negative initial reaction to makerdao and dai upcoming upgrade, largely because it has a "freeze function". AFAICT from https://github.com/makerdao/usds/blob/dev/src/Usds.sol there's no explicit freeze function for now, the issue is it's upgradeable which is equivalent to having a freeze function. I think to be fair to sky people should acknowledge basically everyone has exposure to upgradeable protocols already, including the major stablecoins. It was inevitable if the goal is to work with RWAs with sufficient compliance, should be no surprise.

Practically we can't avoid mutability exposure (use immut. silo and USDC or chainlink multisigs can still get you), key is how it's done. Is it a multisig that might be one guy with no time delay? Or is it a token vote which is very slow / is multisig behind a timelock? Seems likely in this case auth is DAO which is too transparent and slow to freeze anything, user can move before DAO adds them to pause map.

I think sky and usds will have their place, excited to see how it goes. But more so for "pure dai", we lost NM but he still talked to Rune about these things a little, maybe they can come up with something which meaningfully improves on RAI.

u/Detroitlions81 reflects on the Ethereum experience

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f29003/daily_general_discussion_august_27_2024/lkaaqjs/)

Something I miss from the bear market of ~2018-2020 are the inside jokes and the dark humor to get us through the rough times. EZPZ $324 that one rhino account mocking us as we slid further, the hodl messages. I look back at that time weirdly well. I guess I was so self assured that we were misunderstood or not understood at all.

The last bull run we were learning about maker, compound, uniswap, aave, yearn finance and it was this adventure to try all them out and exciting to try a whole new world without filling out forms, showing your identity or waiting on someone’s approval. It was fun to be an explorer and then it got even better because we got airdrops out of it. And from there it turned into something else where we turned into airdrop hunters. I didn’t feel incentives to try out something unless it had airdrop potential. Other protocols started getting hacked and it felt even worse to try things that weren’t battle tested. Our tolerance to take risks and explore was diminished by the two prong attack of protocol hacks and airdrop expectations.

All of this compounded with the idea that none of the l2 experience feels like the OG experience of eth. Trying to explain to outsiders how you found a new protocol to try out on scroll becomes an absolute chore. I.E purchase some eth on Coinbase, purchase a hardware wallet, send eth to your wallet, bridge to scroll, and from there trust that this protocol doesn’t have an exploit that loses your funds.

Like yeah maybe it’s not all that difficult to figure out if you put in the effort. You take the time and learn. The logic is sound if you find the right places or people to guide you. But it’s too much to expect people that don’t share the passion to get into.

I’m optimistic it’ll get better truly. But to get to that next level I think a lot of these L2’s need to consolidate. OP or Zksync or Arbitrum need to feel just like Ethereum or build their own brand to Ethereum’s level.

Thanks for reading. There just aren’t people I see in the world that understand or care about Ethereum.

u/pa7x1 speculates on future blob demand

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1f31zal/daily_general_discussion_august_28_2024/lkbmqp8/)

Three filled blobs are worth around 500 USD for ETH price in burn from blobspace alone. We are close to filling it up not even 6 months onto the upgrade. Ethereum's usage has grown up 700% in one year from 50-60 tps to 350-400 tps and is not showing signs of stopping here.

Why I'm saying this... 3 years ago nobody had a fucking clue how to value Ethereum. So I wrote a little article explaining how you can value the network based on fee revenues, how to calculate a DCF, how the burn places a floor on Ethereum's long-term price, how you can view the burn as having an equivalent effect to the price as a buyback... 3 years later this understanding has penetrated deeper and now you have CT "analysts" calling ETH dead because they don't understand EIP-1559 fee mechanism and how it creates a fee market. And they are using the same arguments that were laid out on this subreddit first to price Ethereum, against it.

They still have no fucking clue. Ethereum is gonna fill those blobs, and then we are gonna release more blobs and they will get filled again. And every factor of 3 is gonna bring another 500 USD in price to Ethereum through burn. And in a decade you will have something like 64 blobs and that's gonna bring you 10K USD/ETH just from blobspace. Not even taking into account L1 native blockspace. And not taking into account any monetary premium that will slowly form because ETH will become the most pristine collateral of all that economy flowing on top and has way lower issuance than USD and even Bitcoin.

Here are the numbers...

500 tps x (60 x 60 x 24) secs/day x 0.05 USD/tx x 50% (L1 value capture) / 2500 ETH/day

There are 3 assumptions here, so I let you decide their uncertainty.

500 tps with 3 blobs: Based on estimates of current tps and blobs filled. Blobs could get denser with compression improvements. But likely not an order of magnitude denser.

0.05 USD average L2 fee: This should land the median fee in around 1-2 cents that is low even for very low added value transactions like buying a coffee. Therefore at those fees even the lowest added value transactions are feasible onchain. This is also close to Solana average fees, so at those fees you can outcompete the promise of cheap fees of alt L1s.

50% value capture: the hardest to estimate. I suspect it will be a tad higher eventually, 70ish%. But assuming 50% has the advantage of not being too far wrong in either direction. If L1 only captures 25% of value (which I consider very low) we are wrong by a factor of 2. If L1 captures almost all value we are wrong by a factor of 2. So I'm splitting the bill here.

2500 ETH/day is just how many we issue nowadays. This is quite bounded from above given Ethereum's issuance formula.

u/superphiz shares the Guardians of the Ether upgradable NFTfor solo and home stakers

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ez4fxr/daily_general_discussion_august_23_2024/ljjmocf/)

This has been a LONG time coming, but /u/jtnichol, /u/nixorokish, and /u/logic_beach, and I met with Leo Glisic and Kyndle, founders of Guardians of the Ether to share their project publicly.

Guardians of the Ether is an upgradable NFT for solo & home stakers that serves as a badge that can promote inclusion of stakers in governance.

These NFTs are non-transferrable, so there is no economic incentive to claim this NFT - only bragging rights. (Think twenty years from now!)

Every year, a few weeks after September 15, these badges can be upgraded to show another year of beacon chain participation.

With gas in the low single-digits, now is an excellent time to mint yours.

You can also see the project on opensea.

Warpcast announcement

A tweet thread from Leo Glisic.

Huge shout out to u/equal-jellyfish1 for filling the gaps as our Substidooter! It truly allows this amazing service to maintain longevity and much deserved breaks for our resident troll

#75: August 23, 2024

No Livestream | No POAP

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ez4fxr/comment/ljhzqpy/)

Ethereum

u/SelfmadeMillionaire

$2651

Full post on ethresear.ch

0.0438

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eu9s49/daily_general_discussion_august_17_2024/limjxod/)

Ether atmosphere,

Validators stand to steer,

No trust paint to smear.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1exh5g5/comment/ljb1q1g/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: u/15kisFUD

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1esmtac/daily_general_discussion_august_15_2024/liaylfi/)

ETH price getting you down? Want to channel your inner Reno007? Post about it here in the daily of my new sub /r/ethwhinance!

u/eth2353 has the latest on Ethereum consensus timing games

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1esmtac/daily_general_discussion_august_15_2024/li7xbe2/)

If you're a home staker and were wondering why you're missing more head votes than a few years ago, at least part of the blame seems to be on Kiln, one of the largest Ethereum staking node operators.

Toni Wahrstätter (EF) published a new article yesterday:

On Attestations, Block Propagation, and Timing Games

Kiln seems to have been pushing "timing games" to the very limit, "delaying block proposals to the 3-3.5 second mark within the slot." Blocks are supposed to be published 0 seconds into the slot. Publishing 1-1.5 seconds into the slot is still considered okay for various reasons but 3-3.5 seconds is really pushing it since the attestation deadline is at 4 seconds into the slot. Before that deadline, the block needs to be propagated globally over the P2P network, and fully processed by nodes. That gets quite difficult (read: impossible) when the block is proposed 3.5 seconds into the slot.

Some other quotes from the article, I tried not taking them out of context but still would recommend reading the full article:

This chart shows the evolution of timing games. We can see that blocks from Kiln validators appear later and later over time.

the longer one waits, the higher the expected number of missed head votes

This comes with an impact on the network: for blocks proposed by Kiln proposers, the missed/wrong head vote rate is significantly higher:

Kiln shows outlier behavior. While most node operators’ attesters correctly vote for the parent block rather than the local block, Kiln’s attesters appear to disregard this norm. Over 10% of Kiln attesters attempt to keep the local block on-chain by voting for it. If such strategies are adopted, they might justify the losses from incorrect head votes if they prevent the local block from being reorged. However, these tactics are generally frowned upon within the Ethereum community: “don’t play with consensus”.

So, are we ready to call Kiln a bad actor here? I myself am not quite there yet but I do think they're already way too big of an actor regardless of these timing games, managing almost 5% of all Ethereum validators (rated.network, may be even higher). I strongly dislike this behavior though, that's why I'm sharing it here with all of you.

I do like a few things that Kiln does, like their in-depth blog posts about client diversity (1, 2, 3) and their open-source validator monitoring solution that we also use at Serenita.

Still I can't help but think playing these timing games causes unnecessary stress to the network, only resulting in short-term profits.

( For those that don't know the full context - these timing games are played in order to extract a bit more MEV. So as a validator you basically make a selfish decision to make a little bit more profit that hurts the rest of the network because they get a lower reward for the wrong head vote. )

u/HSuke reminds us to stay on our toes

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1etgdqq/daily_general_discussion_august_16_2024/lidbjc3/)

Be wary when joining crypto projects from unknown people.

A notable Moon/Donut farmer was a victim of a spear phishing social engineering attack: https://x.com/ZoomerXBT/status/1823438152394055994

The attacker convinced the victim to check out the project to see if the victim would be interested in joining the team to create NFTs for it. The executable for the supposed game project turned out to be a Remote Access Tool.

u/Dreth educates us on wallet security

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1etgdqq/daily_general_discussion_august_16_2024/lidnkcl/)

I was going to reply to this in the chain of comments of the case of that moon/donut farmer (which /u/HSuke posted) that was targetted and drained but I will make this as a top level comment for more visibility:

Windows itself is a riskier system to use and was mentioned as an attack vector in the thread, however, it's also fair to say that there are several red flags here from the info i get from this chain of comments and it's that:

Never use hot wallets for any significant amounts of money
Never run unknown software (this can happen on any system)
Be skeptical of crypto jobs which are a significant vector of attack for scammers (esp. gaming, moderator, or unspecified soft-skill based jobs)
Be skeptical of anything passed to you through telegram, as telegram despite being an excellent piece of software also makes it extremely easy to wipe the chat likely doesn't pursue scams beyond simple bans
If you absolutely need to open software or a document, use a virtual machine, this person ran that binary no condom in his machine
Gaming projects are especially prone to be represented by scammers as they often require installing software, so this should immediately be a red flag
Treat random messages as scams outright, in any platform, from anyone, making sure to take extra care and question absolutely every single thing the person tells you, often assuming it's false and with intent to scam you. Especially if your wallets are out in the open and public or you're a well known farmer/social media person/community manager or member/have a valuable doxxed wallet or if your email or personal details have been in any data breach.

For data breach related things I suggest checking https://haveibeenpwned.com which has several tools to check this which are well known in the privacy community. Also consider using tools and taking measures recommended by https://privacyguides.org.

I also wrote an article about this on my website which I posted on here a while ago. I've learned a lot about networking and other things since I wrote this, so some things might be slightly off, but if you wanna check it out feel free.

More importantly though, I highly recommend software isolation, which is the most important measure to take. Minimize your surface area for attack:

Run unknown and potentially risky-to-use software in virtual machines
Isolate your crypto activity to a different CLEAN browser (only with your wallet software) or a different clean machine altogether
Avoid using hot wallets as much as you can

For more technical folk and programmers in this community, or those interested: You should also learn to use smart contract testing software like brownie (python), foundry (rust) or hardhat (javascript) to automate transactions and use hot wallets in a programmatic way, though when learning to use these always use testnets first to try. Learning to use software like this and learning smart contract programming languages like solidity, vyper or others will absolutely help you in navigating the space in a much more careful way.

u/HauntedJockStrap88 is convinced that ETH's fundamental advantages will play out in time

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1etgdqq/daily_general_discussion_august_16_2024/lienfys/)

Besides “everyone and god hates us”, I’ve yet to see a good reason why the fundamental advantages of ETH won’t play out in price over the next 12-18 months.

ETH is the only smart contract platform that has the institutional/regulatory green light.

ETH is inflating minimally/deflating forever since the merge and 4844. (Compare ETH vs SOL)

ETH is the only smart contract platform that has a record of liveness that is acceptable for global settlement. (Again compare to SOL outages)

L2 scaling is a wild success and is up only. L2 usage is up only.

If smartcontracts/blockchain is a transformative technology there is no real competitor to ETH. BTC DOESN’T DO ANYTHING. Sure, it might be a good investment since enough people think it’s neat, but that doesn’t mean it’s in competition with ETH.

The ONLY reason I see ETH failing is if blockchain itself is rendered useless by some other unforeseen technology. But otherwise the instantaneous settlement, immutability, and resilience of a decentralized smart contract platform like ETH offers enough advantages over the legacy system that it can’t not be adopted. And if a decentralized smart contract platform is adopted it will be ETH.

Regulatory clarity in the US is coming. Continued scalability increases are coming. Widespread stablecoin payments are coming. Institutional adoption has started. DEFI use will be up only.

People are worried over 5 months of bad PA for ETH the asset and I agree it has sucked but narrative follows price- don’t let the bad PA make you think the ETH fundamentals have changed.

u/smidge explains why the new EZPZ crypto ETF is actually good for Europe

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eu9s49/daily_general_discussion_august_17_2024/lij61y5/)

https://decrypt.co/245173/franklin-templeton-ezpz-crypto-etf

This has been mentioned yesterday, i think the ezpz etf might be very interesting for european users. An etf holding only one asset is prohibited in europe/eu as far as i know, thats why the current etfs are not available to buy.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can elaborate further, but afaik you need a basket of assets to get an etf approved in europe. Lets hope the minimum is 2!

u/696_eth recaps the week for the EVMavericks

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1evtl8k/daily_general_discussion_august_19_2024/liy2xto/)

EVMavericks Weekly Recap (August 12-18)

Catch up on a week's worth of, mostly, Discord content: get some inside scoop and the feel of our vibes. For all the details, visit directly our Discord.

Some EVMavericks were onboarded to participate in Octant's rounds and help select various projects, thus contributing to public goods indirectly.
Our farmers discuss what's hot, what's cold. Orderly (TGE is on 26th), Debrdige, Tari, Hyperliquid.
Our quality chat is filled with talks about stocks and gold, what's underrated and why.
Degen chat is not so degen nowadays. Discussions revolve around forms of money and the differences between real money and memes.
And from the Twitter land, Batz shows his bullishness on ETH by referencing RatioGang website which is built by our very own InsideTheSimulation.
We see a few nice sales as 930.eth picks up these cool looking lions!
Our memecoining thread has been the most active. Lots of discussions but notably some juicy alpha including coins and polymarket bets. While don't be fooled that it's all green and rosey, it definitely gets red at times, but here are some calls of the week:

~5x - $r/snoofi by WTF

~3x - $pop by etheraider

~ 2-30x - $TrumpFish by 696

Lastly, your weekly security reminder: here’s a few guides!

EVMavericks discord has a security channel. You can literally mute everything else but that channel and only get notifications from there.

Reminder for all the folks: we have a daily-discussion channel in the discord that's open to public and there's a decent amount of activity there!

u/MerkleChainsaw brainstorms a possible way to fight MEV and u/cryptOwOcurrency builds off this by drawing parallels to email

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1evtl8k/daily_general_discussion_august_19_2024/liwdb4d/)

u/MerkleChainsaw:

Would it be possible to defeat MEV with no protocol changes with smarter wallets?

Validators could choose to flag that they will avoid MEV and randomize transaction order in their block.
Their adherence could be observed by third parties and wallet providers to create a list of validators using and not using MEV.
Because proposers are known ahead of time, wallets could give users a toggle to transact either on "first available block" or "wait for first available MEV free block". Getting a MEV free validator wouldn't be guaranteed but could be targeted.
Assuming a critical mass of validators goes "MEV free" and enough users toggle to attempt MEV free transactions they could see a higher share of fee revenue to make up for lost MEV.

Besides the chicken-and-egg problem here, a problem I see with this idea is that if the "MEV free" validators captured a larger share of DeFi transaction fees this could be offset by regular validators getting a larger share of simple token transactions since their blocks would otherwise be emptier. Also for any really big MEV opportunities it would be worth it for any validator to just take the MEV, exit the pool, and re-enter with a new identity. If we could find solutions to these problems, it feels a lot cleaner to me than some of the currently proposed solutions like builder separation.

u/cryptOwOcurrency:

To me this feels like the email reputation problem all over again.

In the early days of the internet, anybody's computer could directly send an email to an email server and it would get delivered. Then as email became widespread, the concept of spam email arose.

So email service providers (ESPs) started tracking reputation by IP address, which is what they do to this day. Each ESP keeps a small rotation of "clean" IP addresses to send mail from, and they work hard to make sure nobody uses them to send spam so that their IP reputation stays clean. And each ESP keeps a list of blocklists that contain tons of low-reputation IPs, from which they auto delete all incoming emails.

The result is a system where yes, technically speaking you can send an email directly, but it's largely impossible from a residential internet connection since they block the outgoing port (SMTP) to prevent spam, and it's largely impossible from a web host or VPS too because chances are that whatever IP you get, someone else has already sent spam and ruined its email reputation (if the web host doesn't outright block the SMTP port). So it's a technically open system where the only way you can send an email in practice is to hand your email off to an ESP like Gmail or Yahoo or iCloud or specialized "email hosting" products for delivery.

Trust me, email servers suck balls to maintain. It's a lot of writing blocklist maintainers to try to get off their lists - maintainers who only expect emails from email hosting companies. And the software is far less streamlined than web hosting software, since nobody hosts email servers anymore. It's a full time job.

All that is to say, if there's one or more independent parties certifying whether validators are MEV-free, the endgame is that it turns into another whack-a-mole reputation management scheme just like email. And I don't want running a validator to suck balls like running an email server does.

Also for any really big MEV opportunities it would be worth it for any validator to just take the MEV, exit the pool, and re-enter with a new identity. If we could find solutions to these problems, it feels a lot cleaner to me than some of the currently proposed solutions like builder separation.

You have to track reputation somehow. And there are limited ways of doing so. You could track them by IP, which runs into the aforementioned issues and makes "clean" IP addresses expensive. Or you could track the coins themselves, which just means that every ETH on chain has a hidden reputation value, which makes "clean" ETH more expensive.

I believe the answer is "it fundamentally cannot be done in a fair way within the latest production version of the Ethereum protocol".

Edit: Of course, protocol changes like shutterization can help.

u/haurog educates us on staking with RISC-V chip architecture

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ewn8dw/daily_general_discussion_august_20_2024/lj2anr4/)

Warning, very geeky hardware topic ahead.

In the last few weeks I have worked on running Ethereum nodes on RISC-V boards. RISC-V is one of the more modern CPU architectures besides the well known x86 (most PCs) and ARM (Apple and cell phones). RISC-V started being developed around 2010 and got published around 2014. Only in the last few years the basic parts got standardized and the they are still in active development to standardize some of the extensions.

One big difference is than anyone can design and build CPUs on this standard and many companies actually do. This is in contrast to x86 processors where only 3 companies have a license to actually design/build them: Intel, AMD, VIA Technologies. For ARM CPUs anyone who buys a license from ARM Holdings can design and build ARM CPUs but these licenses can be very strict. For example, ARM Holdings is currently trying to force Qualcomm to destroy all ARM based Windows laptops due to a licensing dispute. RISC-V is open, which means anyone can design and build processors following this standard without having to pay anyone anything or follow any strict licensing rules. This means this is the most open CPU architecture we have. The disadvantage is that it is all very new and therefore the currently available Processors are not the most powerful ones. But the progress in just the last 5 years is quite amazing. Back then one could only get the most minimal boards which pretty much could only read some inputs do some basic calculations and control an output. There was no support to run any operating system on these boards. Linux support was pretty much non existent.

Today, we can get boards which can easily run full Linux distributions even Ubuntu supports some boards directly and about every 9 months a new iteration of ever more powerful boards hit the market. The driver for this development is the openness. Companies know, that no one can take their licenses away and this gives them security to develop RISC-V based CPUs. This open competition will probably enable many more people to get access to affordable and powerful enough hardware to run an ethereum node. To get there however, the node clients themselves will have to be optimized for this hardware platform as well.

That is why another node operator was asking in many discords if anyone else is interested to help in this effort. I obviously jumped on this opportunity and we have been working on it in the last few weeks. We now got Nimbus, Lighthouse and geth running. They can be built with some modifications and run reliably. Some of the modifications have already been pushed to the respective client teams and some more modifications will come in the next weeks. We are working on some other clients as well (grandine, Reth and prysm) but they have some more issues which need further investigation.

At the moment we have 4 different boards to test our stuff on. These are the HiFive Unmatched, the VisionFive 2, the Lichee Pi 4a and the Banana Pi F3. All of these are at most barely powerful enough to actually run a full node. Nevertheless, we managed to fully and reliably sync the sepolia testnet on the Banana Pi (Nimbus/geth) and we even managed to sync mainnet with lighthouse, but only for brief periods of time until it lost sync again and then it was behind the head for about 1-3 hours until it regained sync again. We even overclocked our board which slightly improved the sync reliability, but not by much. Looks like the current iteration of boards is a good basis to test nodes and get the clients ready but we need at least one more iteration to be able to run nodes reliably.

In parallel, my colleague tries to incorporate as many improvements as necessary into eth-docker so that prospective node operators will have a very convenient way to spin up a node on these boards. It still is a very rocky road ahead, but I am pretty sure that when actually powerfull enough RISC-V boards will hit the market in 1-3 years or so, a good selection of clients will be ready to run on them.

u/Bob-Rossi reminds us of the purpose of EIP-1559

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ewn8dw/daily_general_discussion_august_20_2024/lj2uzn0/)

It's a little complicated because EIP-1559 served multiple purposes, and the burn achieved multiple goals. You can read all about it in the github of the EIP (it's short, and really digestible - I promise!) --- EIPs/EIPS/eip-1559.md at master · ethereum/EIPs · GitHub

The short of it is, the burn was absolutely a stated part of monetary policy, to the point I'd argue it was past 'a nice side effect'. Honestly a fairly elegant solution IMO. And if you remember the narratives around BTC vs ETH at the time of it's launch, issuance/inflation rates were a very hot topic.

I think where the disconnect came from was people misunderstood that it was an amplifier, not a driver, of price action. Meaning that in the event we saw a period of relatively little crypto demand combined with low fees the burn wouldn't be as impactful. Which we sort of unfortunately saw post-launch.

An important aspect of this fee system is that miners only get to keep the priority fee. The base fee is always burned (i.e. it is destroyed by the protocol). This ensures that only ETH can ever be used to pay for transactions on Ethereum, cementing the economic value of ETH within the Ethereum platform and reducing risks associated with miner extractable value (MEV). Additionally, this burn counterbalances Ethereum inflation while still giving the block reward and priority fee to miners. Finally, ensuring the miner of a block does not receive the base fee is important because it removes miner incentive to manipulate the fee in order to extract more fees from users.

u/Tricky_Troll covers the pragmatic approach to privacy which many apathetic people may miss

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1exh5g5/daily_general_discussion_august_21_2024/lj693g9/)

I just thought I'd share a snippet I shared just now in yesterday's daily about why the defeatist attitude to privacy around "oh they have my data anyway" is actually completely missing the point of privacy. It's not about going off the grid, its about reducing your attack surface and if you hold crypto, then reducing your data footprint is not paranoia, it's prudent.

One of the key things outsiders miss about the privacy community is the concept of the "threat model". Who are you trying to hide your data from? Most people can't hide from 3 letter agencies without hugely inconveniencing their daily life, but that's ok because there are some legal protections to stop some degree of government abuse (for example police need to get warrants to search your home etc.) But if you post all of your life details to social media then police can just buy your data, they don't need to search your home if they can buy info from tech companies. Stalkers and $5 wrench attackers can do the same and hackers have waaaay more places to steal your info from, making you more prone to phishing, burglary and much much more. Basically there are some super simple steps to make your digital footprint soooo much smaller. Things like degoogling, using uBlock origin and Firefox for browsing, avoiding cloud services in favour of physical backups or your own servers and not owning a car made after the mid 2010s which collects and sells location and converstional data (some car companies reserve the right to sell your sexual data, no I'm not kidding, its right there in their terms and conditions). These things don't take much effort for tech savvy people and it gets 80 – 90% of your data off the marketplace and out of the easy reach of government agencies beyond the most powerful ones which you don't really need to worry about if you're not a terrorist.

#74: August 9, 2024

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1enrae5/comment/lh89w8l/)

Ethereum

$2662.54

u/Vinegar_Strokes__

0.043

90,771 hodlers subscribed (+2)

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ejnbk4/comment/lgingg8/)

It's a scarry chart,

Fundamentals outsmart,

It's merely a fart.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1emxgi7/comment/lh4exoe/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: u/EmpireStake

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ekfjb6/daily_general_discussion_august_5_2024/lgm77mw/)

be me
wake up in cozy Airbnb on fine Sunday morning Tropical Storm Debby cancels flights home fuckthat.jpg
wife and I decide to drive rental car back to New York 12-hour drive ahead
leave at 11 am ETH price tanking, watching it on Apple Watch
realize I have a big loan on Aave
sweating.jpg remember liquidation point in low $2000s, can't remember exact number
anxietyintensifies.gif
hit traffic nearly 12 am, price dropping faster
panicmode.exe
arrive in NYC, get in Lyft, tell driver to go fast
driver understands and drives like a maniac
wife has no idea get home, check position LTV at 76%, 4% away from liquidation
fire up Ledger, send more crypto lower liquidation price by half
calm.jpg

what. a. day.

u/PhiMarHal shares their experience at EDCON

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ei1pba/daily_general_discussion_august_2_2024/lg5jqfg/)

(1/2)

I broke my no conference rule and attended EDCON in Tokyo this year. Didn't see any posts about it, but maybe I missed them, it's been hectic running around to try to attend everything (and missing most of it). Either way I thought I'd share my subjective experience as a normally privacy-conscious grumpy internet man.

First, the quality of that conference was impressive. On every aspect. Coordinating any event is no easy task, and here the organization was top notch. As someone who doesn't speak a word of Japanese and can hardly mumble coherent English, the EDCON team aptly corraled me and others wherever they needed to be.

Great venues too. Most days we were at the United Nations building. I think the whole building catered to the convention? One big conference room housing about ~400 people for the main talks, and side conference rooms for side talks/workshops. Then the main 2 days took place at the Yoyogi gymnasiums, which were OK for the more festive atmospheres they were meant to be, but a bit iffy on acoustics when it comes to listening to technical talks.

Of course this is what matters most, the quality of these talks. I have to say this did not disappoint. There's something to be said for being committed to an event and passively sitting there for hours, as opposed to surfing the Internet and actively seeking knowledge. Whether you want it or not, when you're physically present your brain starts to absorb knowledge like a plant does photosynthetis.

In particular, I found all the talks on MPC (Multi Party Computation), TEE (Trusted Execution Environment), FHE (Fully Homomorphic Encryption) especially interesting. Many of us have seen these terms many times, the most adventurous among us even try to read Vitalik's blogs on the topic. Personally it still failed to click for me. Until I sat in these rooms and saw the points explained and reexplained in a variety of different ways by various speakers.

Major props in particular to the panel between Guy Itzhaki (Fhenix), Zhen Yu Yong (Web3Auth), Chua Zheng Leong (Automata). Three guys who manifestly know their stuff and engaged with each other to make these concepts obvious to the crowd. The theme was MPC vs TEE vs FHE, but really it came down to them explaining where each solution makes the most sense. I don't know when EDCON will put the videos of these talks online, but if there's one panel I'd suggest watching, it would be this one.

In person, you truly get to see who's passionate and who's acting. Either that or there were some excellent actors. The aura of highbrained discussion shifts your perspective, you get caught in the enthusiasm. When I first saw Fhenix (which is a L2) online, my cynical ass thought oh joy, they took FHE and made a little play with Phenix, how "clever". Post conference? Oh, they took FHE and made a little wordplay with Phenix! How clever! (his frown and cynicism: gone)

Another protocol that flipped me 180 was Zircuit. Initially (online) their marketing as an AI-powered L2 made me scoff. But the talk by their CTO made an excellent case for the future of sequencers, differentiating themselves by subjective qualities rather than the objective increases of scale. I got to speak with one of their devs, who told me the AI is really used for data analysis, to classify the possible pathways for DeFi hacks we've seen in the past, and then identify transactions that look functionally similar and send them in quarantine before inspection. Which is entirely sensible when you think about it. So many exploits boil down to flashloans, oracle manipulations and high changes of volume in a single block, that it should be not only possible but practical to build heuristics to defeat most common attack vectors.

Needless to say, I'm now accumulating some Zircuit points...

Intmax people were on several panels, and then they featured proeminently at Plasmacon the next day as they were organizing it. Justin Drake had a pretty cool gigabrain (omegabrain?) talk about it. I won't even try to pretend I can explain, save that you can run pretty aggressive compressions for payment usecases.

Justin also made the interesting case BTC as an asset could survive a 51% attack (which in his opinion will happen within ~10 years) by using one-shot quantum signatures and leaving the PoW chain behind. Right, I understand some of these words.

Adrian Brink of Anoma had several talks on completely different topics, all great stuff. He's a good speaker and obviously a smart man, if a little bit too smart as his presentations tend to end up too dense with information. I liked his hot take in Plasmacon the most, paraphrased: if we define scalability as the ability to retain fixed costs no matter the activity, then rollups are not a viable scaling solution, while Plasma can be. Personally I think the burden on app developers (who have to guarantee data availability or think of the right incentive mechanisms for others to provide it) is too large for the time being, and I would not bet on Plasma being big at scale before 2030, but what do I know?

The more relevant point, maybe, is that a whole lot of people are clearly building for 2030 and beyond. If you're ever looking for a fix of optimism to distract you from market trends or cryptotwitter feuds, I will wholeheartedly vouch for EDCON. This could not have been better exemplified than by Vitalik's keynotes.

Finally got to see the unicorn... scratch that, the horse... amend that, the man... on stage. There is a special sort of energy to his talks. You can tell he's exposing his concrete, factual vision for the space, which he makes accessible to the rest of us but doesn't massage, inflate, nor reduce, in any other way. But I also liked the energy of his body language. Always moving around, pacing from one leg to another, the frame of someone who speaks of a topic he knows in and out and wishes our input/output bandwidth as human beings could stretch to accomodate the full speed of his thoughts as fast as they come. It hits different when mr Buterin says we can scale, because it MEANS we CAN scale.

The focus was on the next 10 years of Ethereum, touching on where we were, where we're at and where we're going. Main idea: we got the fees down, now we need to get back to 2016 UX of a monolithic construction from the user perspective. Main pathways: gas auctions (you have ETH on any rollup, someone else broadcasts your transaction on the desired rollup for a fee, competition should push that fee down to negligible levels), chain prefixes (op:0x1234 and arb:0x1234 instead of 0x1234, handled at the wallet/dapp level, all you see and use is 0x1234 and everything is taken care of).

In closing, he suggested the infra is good and we should expect to see a shift in focus towards applications. Music to my ears.

(re: unicorn. On the final day, Vitalik came in a Bufficorn costume. Then removed it to reveal his secret identity as a humanoid horse holding Dogecoin. Then became human. I feel the genius in that costume is that he waddled around the conference for hours before, incognito. How do you attend a show when you're a rockstar billionaire? Without the suit he would have been crowded all the time, but as a mascot most people seemed to blissfully ignore him.)

(2/2)

So the main stuff was good. And there was a lot more to it! The hackathons were great, you get to see what people are building. Much of it was sponsored by zkSync. There was a funny dynamic to this. First you'd hear the zkSync guys describe their newest infra directions, the possibilities it allows. Then the hackers would show up on stage... and after their presentations, would be assaulted by technical questions from the very same zkSync people. "What do you think about this potential issue? Have you thought about using specific feature X in your app? What about..." All in good form, benevolent, but nonetheless you got the vibe of Infra Nobility questioning Application Peasants. If there ever was a need to illustrate this current reality in our industry, I think it was on display there, in those poor hackers' confused answers.

zkSync had the best swag. They brought their eli5 books (which you might have already seen here: https://eli5.zksync.io/ ), in Japanese and English. A 200-piece puzzle box. Their mascot "Zeek" was proeminently featured. They're killing it on branding, it's stuff you're happy to own because it looks visually pleasing, and it's appropriate for kids too.

They had this pretty slick zkQuest website too: https://zkquest.zksync.io

Which you activated by going to their booth. It let you do a bunch of developer quests, ranging from very simple to rather involved, and covered a large spread of topics in their ecosystem. You got real ETH for finishing those quests, and the amounts were rather generous! Doing everything could net you about 0.065 ETH.

(Most people didn't. I only managed less than half, and I'm in the top50 leaderboard.)

Oh, and finishing the first set of easier quests got you the coolest swag, a Zeek hat. It was genuinely cool to see people wandering around with theirs on, you could tell who's engaging deeply with the developer side of the conference. Status signals like this make for fun crowd dynamics.

The PSE research group (pse.dev) worked the same magic in their FHE panel. They demonstrated this app letting you connect with other people by tapping your NFC-enabled phone to a ring, to then let you make private groups and vote on various things anonymously. In the end everyone who participated got a NFC black ring. More subtle than a Zeek hat, it was neat to spot other ringbearers in the wild through the rest of the conference.

The entertainment was fun. Partly because there was clear confusion between the attendees and the shows. You hear stories about fans going ga-ga for Kpop, then you're here watching tripleS get on stage and half of the crowd is getting up and walking away.

(It was just after Vitalik's keynote. You could see the flow of the wave moving in for his talk, then moving back out. Half of the total crowd or so.)

I made it a purpose to approach this conference while revealing as little about myself as possible. I did not specify my job, my occupation, made it a point to say I was neither a developer nor an investor, didn't tell my name, never connected my Twitter or Telegram to anything. My goal in that was to see how open the culture is, to check whether reputation/identity are defacto requirements or if people are willing to engage with you regardless.

The conference scored highly on that scale. I applied to almost all side events, and almost everyone let me in. I didn't try to approach people, but several individuals came to me. Out of them only one I would qualify as a shitcoin shiller, and even then he was fairly respectful and didn't try to push beyond giving me the swag. Everyone else was insightful, loved to trade ideas and talk about what they were doing. I'm not a particularly charismatic person, so to come in anonymous and get this amount of positive sentiment and friendliness freely extended... truly suggests, at least to me, the community has done a good job translating the "permissionless" concept to real life.

There was a good spread of side events. Whatever it is you wanted to do. If you wanted to go deep into some technical topic, there was a side event for that in a crowded classroom somewhere. If you wanted to watch Japanese idols sing some songs about smart contracts being the next hope of humanity, there was a side event for that too. I went to everything I could, if only because as a first-time Japan tourist it made for a guide to discover the hot spots in town. It was a good reminder blockchain leans young. You could count the people with grey hair on your two hands, if not two fingers.

Subjective conclusion to subjective experience. I had a blast. In life it's easy to nerd out and it's easy to have fun, but it can be hard to find a crowd doing both. I'm also flabbergasted this value is delivered essentially for free. As the EDCON tickets were given to anyone who applied near the end. There was a healthy mix of foreigners to locals, maybe about 60:40. Most of the talks were in English with some AI real-time translation in Japanese.

Strangely enough, it only reaffirmed my belief going to conferences is a tricky path. As in, you can lose sight of the "real" users, onchain. Free tickets to attend or no, the guy from Serbia who makes €600 a month is not hopping on a flight to Tokyo anytime soon. The attendance was definitely biaised towards rich, and it's easy to feel optimistic when you're here either because you're financially independent or because your well-paid job foots the bill.

There's a counterpoint in that the Ethereum community goes through significant effort to diversify event locations and to make things accessible. At this point there's probably something somewhere anyone could attend, given a reasonable effort.

It's hard to stay objective when you're having a good time. I now have so much positive bias towards several protocols based on my people encounters. There's a reason many societies have strict anti-bribery laws, most of us get swayed easily; and man do I feel bribed out in the abundance of free stuff thrown my way.

But you know what? Maybe objectivity is overrated. Brings to mind a certain WEF video: "welcome to the 2030 roadmap. I own all the things, I have some privacy, and life has never been better."

If you ever feel down about this space and have the opportunity to attend, do yourself a favor and take the plunge.

u/pa7x1 speculates on future blobspace price and demand

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ei1pba/daily_general_discussion_august_2_2024/lg4xqgc/)

Estimating the late game economics of blobspace. This is just a quick back of the envelope math, to get a taste of the numbers. Feel free to tweak the assumptions as you see fit. With current blobspace target of 3 blobs (1 shard):

500 tps x 60 x 60 x 24 x 365 secs per year = 15800M transactions per year

Say average transaction fee is 5 cents. Which would make the median even lower, around 1-2 cents. Making even the lowest added value use cases (e.g. pay for coffee) perfectly viable. This is likely extremely conservative because if we start having serious financial applications on top of Ethereum (i.e. tokenized RWA) those fees are ridiculously low. Your broker charges you easily 5 USD per transaction. And registration of car titles, houses, etc... is even more expensive. So it could push the average much higher easily.

15800M tx per year x 0.05 USD per tx = 800M USD per year

Say Ethereum captures 80% of that. This assumption is based on the current burn %, which has typically floated around 80% of the tx cost. This is the trickiest assumption, I don't have a good way of estimating how much value will be captured by Ethereum from the L2 transaction fees. This is dependent on the attractiveness of data availability on Ethereum vs all other options. So feel free to tweak this value. If we assume 80%, that gives us 640M USD per year with 1 shard.

With full danksharding we will go up to 64 shards. So that would puts of the order of 40B USD per year of burn just from blobspace. That gives you an implied price of ETH of 30-35K USD just from blobspace alone. Add to that Ethereum's proper blockspace which in the past has been able to capture a similar figure of burn and you get to a price of ETH around 50K to 100K USD. The price estimate is simply a consequence of assuming ETH cannot be absurdly deflationary, if it were it would cause a supply crunch and the price would go upwards resulting in less burn until it estabilizes around the price that gets us to close to 0 inflation.

Mind you, this is a long-term view of the roadmap. It will take us still years to deliver Danksharding and 64 shards and onboard all the use cases. But it serves to illustrate how the ETH late-game economics could look like.

Disagree with any of the numbers? Change them! The point is not so much to derive a specific figure, but to get a sense of the order of magnitudes we would be dealing with.

u/SeaMonkey82 has a warning for all validators

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ejnbk4/daily_general_discussion_august_4_2024/lgjezl6/)

Word of warning to any validators out there - I recently updated all of my Linux Mint 21.3 systems to Linux Mint 22, and every one of them that had chronyd configured had it removed during the upgrade process. My one Ubuntu 22.04 server also didn't have it after upgrading to 24.04, but I'm not certain that one ever did, so I don't know if this is par for the course for any Ubuntu-based distribution or if it's specific to LInux Mint.

In any case, if you aren't running chronyd for timesync, I recommend it. There's a CoinCashew guide for setting it up, but I recommend relaxing the frequency settings to minpoll 2 and maxpoll 10 to avoid KoD RATE messages.

u/MrCatFace13 shares a memo from Bitwise

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ekfjb6/daily_general_discussion_august_5_2024/lgnetn9/)

The most recent Bitwise memo from Matt Hougan is pretty great. Here is the relevant section:

The last time the market melted down like this was March 12, 2020. That was the day the world realized that Covid was a big deal.

In case you’ve blocked it from your memory, let me remind you: It was chaos.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average sold off 2,353 points on March 12, its worst day since 1987. Tech stocks were in free fall, as were commodities. We all thought the global economy was going to end. The president would declare a national emergency the following morning.

Among all assets, bitcoin crashed the worst, falling 37% from $7,911 to $4,971. It was a breathtaking one-day move, wiping out a year’s worth of gains in 24 hours.

It felt as if we might never recover. The media claimed bitcoin had failed its test as a hedge asset.

And then something spectacular happened. As global leaders stepped in to stabilize the economy—cutting interest rates, printing money—bitcoin began to rise. A year later, it was trading at $57,332, up more than 1,000%.

In retrospect, March 12, 2020 wasn’t a time to panic. It was the best buying opportunity for bitcoin in a decade.

It’s easy to see why with the benefit of hindsight. Nothing fundamental had changed about bitcoin because of Covid. The maximum number of bitcoin that could exist (21 million) was the same on March 11 as it was on March 12. You didn't need to rely on any bank, government, or company to store wealth in bitcoin on March 11, and that was still true on March 12.

At the same time, Covid supercharged the reasons for bitcoin’s long-term rise. It showed that central banks would bail out the economy at the first sign of trouble. It demonstrated the limitations of centralized institutions. And it reminded us that the future is more online and digital.

The changes all pointed in favor of bitcoin becoming more important, not less. And in the long term, that’s exactly what happened.

I see the same setup today.

Edit to add this:

But, in brief: Weak economic data in the U.S. on Friday sparked concerns that the global economy is slowing. This prompted a panic in Asia, where a rapid unwind of the yen carry trade—a strategy aimed at exploiting interest-rate differentials between currencies—pushed Japanese markets sharply lower. Things weren’t helped by rising concerns over geopolitical risks in the Middle East, where Iran is threatening to attack Israel.

These events collided with idiosyncratic negative developments in the crypto market, where a large market maker (Jump Trading) ran into trouble and faced forced liquidations of large positions in ETH.

u/Dreth fact checks their own comment from a few days ago and u/pa7x1 also has some great input on the macro topic at hand

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1el99as/daily_general_discussion_august_6_2024/lgqvde3/)

u/Dreth:

Yesterday I made an (apparently) well received lengthy comment of disorganized thoughts regarding the stock market crash that ocurred this week. I want to correct some inaccuracies or imprecise details I explained regarding the particular events in japan.

The immediate cause is the carry trade, but some corrections about it and the situation in Japan:

The first immediate reason why this happened is because while the FED and the ECB raised rates to control inflation, the BOJ kept rates at 0. This lack of coordination with other central banks, which is entirely within the rights of the BOJ as a central bank of an independent nation, but not ideal, has made a very profitable trade: borrow money in japan, sell JPY, buy USD or EUR and put that money to work in public debt or other yield bearing instrumnets, or if you prefer a riskier trade, buy stocks denominated in other currencies. So both the FED/ECB and BOJ are at fault because they kept rates high for too long and keeping rates low for too long respectively, creating a very profitable trade. Hence why central bank coordination matters in large markets.

And also bad data from other directions causing more drawdown in the market in the days prior to yesterday's crash:

The market had already been pricing in a slowdown in the economy, with unexpectedly low job creation in the US and less than ideal earnings from US companies, though the most concerning figure was the job data. This is likely what caused that first drawdown that brought us to 2700-2900 in the past couple days. But other markets have also been slowing down, not just the US, China too apparently, and Europe we already knew was weak economically from several different directions. Just an example of Europe's weakness at the moment could be seen through Germany's GDP growth, which shows a contracting or stagnant economy, rate hikes most definitely affect this by reducing demand and making credit more expensive, and Germany already had had a weak 2022 with lots of noise in its trade balance as a result of the sanctions to Russia, though this is old news.

Some inaccuracies I layed out that I want to rectify/correct:

I said the BOJ had had near-zero or zero % interest rates for almost a decade, but it's way more than that. The BOJ has had interest rates at zero for MOST of the past 20 years, with short periods of increase that never went above 0.5%.

Hence this trade being not just recently profitable, but historically profitable, especially because this monetary policy from the BOJ was intended to remain for as long as possible. Even now the rates are extremely low, at 0.25% despite increases. The higher the difference between the BOJ rates and the FED/ECB rates, the more profitable this trade becomes, especially because the JPY was particularly weak vs these currencies, so the profit is double, you earn from shorting JPY relative to USD or EUR and you earn from having high interest rates, so the JPY weakness came from a lot more people taking this short position in JPY. Though this was especially profitable recently.

I said that the BOJ wanted to end the carry trade. This is not necessarily true, the BOJ only wants inflation in japan and purchasing power to remain static or to increase (currently Japan's economy has been contracting). The carry trade had been hurting the JPY causing loss of purchasing power because (one example) e.g. commercially, if their currency is lower, their exports are cheaper, but imports are more expensive. Generally this hurts citizens, so the BOJ increased rates to reduce this disparity and give a little more strength to the JPY.

Given that many traders expected the rates to not increase in any meaningful way, and especially expecting the intent to increase them from the BOJ would remain the same, many traders took recent short positions on an already weak JPY, which caused a large cascade of margin calls on JPY borrowers performing carry trades, resulting in that immediate large rise in the JPY.

I won't get into why the Nikkei crashed harder than it ever had in history, it could be due to several factors, but I haven't done any profound research on it. It could be margin calls due to shares being collateral to loans, it could be due to bad earnings, idk, there's probably multiple things at play here.

u/pa7x1:

Pretty good content, both yesterday and today. Some quick complementary comments.

BOJ cannot raise substantially interest rates because Japan's debt to GDP is a ridiculous 263%. This ties their hands, their interest payments would go through the roof. Yes, their debt is issued in Yen. They could always print more but you are just trading one evil for another one.

Nikkei went down because the Yen is strengthening to reflect the new conditions. Japan's economy depends a lot on exports. If the Yen goes up their exports are less competitive. This compresses earnings of their companies. Markets try to see into the future and price that. Plus minus any short term market turmoil, liquidations, etc... But this is short term noise.

The carry trade is not ending here, it has started to unwind. The yield differential is going to keep existing for quite a while as it's related to point 1. Because of that yield differential the Yen should be weaker and devaluing over very long time horizons (decades). What we have seen is just the tip of the iceberg, the most degen of the degen levered to their tits, getting exposed when the market moves a bit against them. And having to close down positions in a disordered manner. Seems some liquidations must have happened but nothing is publicly known yet.

u/ProfessionalNoiseX opens up about their recent liquidation

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1el99as/daily_general_discussion_august_6_2024/lgqfz2w/)

/rant, skip if you don't like sad stories but I need someone to hear me out for my sanity

These are the hardest days for me ever.

The other day I got liquidated on my ratio long on the scam wick. It was not a very aggressive position (actual breakeven ratio for collateral/debt was at 0.0355) but I guess it got to 90% LTV on the protocol anyway.

I did not expect the ratio to drop that much that fast and I was stubborn and did not reduce it in the coming hours when it was at 0.045.

This is where I don't know if I can ever get closure. The protocol that I have used (which I don't want to badmouth but it definitely has some design issues) leaves the difference between liquidation threshold and actual value all to the liquidator. All this to say that the guy liquidated me at barely 90% LTV and actually got a 27ETH payout on a 225 ETH position because it probably actually bounced back in the time it took for him to actually exchange the BTC for ETH.

If I had not been liquidated, that position would be worth something like 40 more ETH than I have now. Had i kept most of that 10% it would have been 25ETH. Instead, I have zero left from that position. I feel like I got robbed.

So, for me that's it. I am back at my initial ETH stack after all these years of working to increase it (I was at my record just over a month ago at 2x the current ETH amount) and now I'm just left with years of stress for nothing.

I can't honestly bounce back from this, I don't have the mental strength nor the stack to risk it anymore. I know that I would probably blow the rest trying to get it back quickly.

I don't know how will I ever overcome this, I have missed real life goals and have been stressed constantly trying to increase my internet coins and now I have lost all that I had built.

I will stick around and follow the progress for Ethereum for which I truly believe in, just with a different outlook for myself and a bad memory of all these years. Hopefully I will be able to partially forgive myself for the mistakes I have made, because right now I am unable to.

Thanks r/ethfinance, you truly have been a beacon of light in all these years and that will be always a nice memory for me.

u/krokodilmannchen is getting flashbacks and shares his 2 wei

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1el99as/daily_general_discussion_august_6_2024/lgqobgg/)

Damn, I'm reading comments from overleveraged people after yesterday's events. It's a trip down memory lane (2018-2020), where plenty of people lost their precious eth. The biggest ethfinance loss I'm aware of was an 8000 eth position that got halved (back then we were talking about a couple of million $ iirc).

There are no "big lessons" imo. You just have to go through these events to learn, or at the very least, treat much more carefully than you think.

To those who have lost a lot yesterday (and the prior weeks), I hope you find your way out of it. It's not easy. At least the tech is "proven" right now and eth isn't going to zero.

u/NeedlerOP shares some reasons to be bullish

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1em3ca0/daily_general_discussion_august_7_2024/lgydx2j/)

Things to be bullish about :

ETH ETFs & positive flows
+ve YOY M2 supply after 16 months of contraction (in layman terms, Powell is printing)
We just had a black swan one per 10 year VIX event comparable to COVID crash and '08 financial crash
ETH Retail is shitting the bed due to poor risk management, and is selling now to institutions
Bitcoin Dominance & Altcoin Dominance Cycle theory points towards alt capitulation and a Q4 Alt-season. I'm under the belief we have experienced the last flush accelerated by the BOJ black swan, instead of mid Q4.
ETH is underperforming all assets within the space currently
As an example, in 2019, after the Mid-cycle top, we saw crypto markets & ratio bottom after 75 bps of cuts, which will be 2 FED meetings in our case (Early Nov)
The time to be bearish was last week, you're fucked now and it may be too late to be bearish
Most metrics and leading economic indicators are flashing positive or neutral, employment is still historically low, the recession has already happened, and we are coming out of it. (Only -ve signal is yield curve, which is still fucked)

Source : NBER Recession Indicators, Conference Board LEI

In inflationary environments, the unemployment SAHM recession indicator fires during or after the stock market drawdown has occurred - it appears to have been front-run substantially this time with all the recession fears in '22

BONUS - Short Term

Jim Cramer bear posted on crypto a couple days ago

u/Tricky_Troll talks about mindsets after a setback

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1em3ca0/daily_general_discussion_august_7_2024/lgx301z/)

I just wanted to share a bit of a mindset change I've had over the last couple of years in this bear market which I discussed in response to a fellow EthFinancier at the end of yesterday's daily who lost a lot of ETH (but not their whole stack) to a liquidation this week. I'd love to hear how everyone else who is quite far into this game has had their mindset change over time. I also hope it doesn't come off as pretentious. I'm not some zen guru who is holier than thou for being grateful for what I have. Far from it. I just stress a lot less and chase that calculating my net worth dopamine hit much much less and I hope others can achieve that too.

Hey friend, I can relate. I lost about 30% of my stack to shitcoins and another 20% I have cashed out because I let my lifestyle adapt based on a price movement (last bullrun) which didn't stay around and which I didn't take anywhere near enough profits on but still had a lot of taxes to pay. I recognise that your story probably stings a lot more than mine ever did with the scam wick, but I think the important difference here is I am 2 years further down the line after taking a big L than you are.

After the my big sudden L with a couple of shitcoins which basically went to 0, I went cold turkey on the bullshit. Anything risky is out of my portfolio. No shitcoins, no leverage. Not even "blue chip" or darling altcoins like LINK or RPL. At the end of the day they're all about taking on risk to get more ETH. But that's just a form of gambling. So all that's left is DCAing (which is out of the picture for me as a student) and staking. So I've just been comfortably holding and staking for the last two years. As time has gone on, I have come to terms with not being able to attain my more lofty price targets and bullish financial goals. Instead I have focused on what I do have. And holy fuck, I'm only sitting on one home validator but my god, this still puts me way ahead of anyone else my age that wasn't born into the 1%. This bear market has been humbling for me in a good way. I'm no longer trying to gamble for more ETH, so I have had time to reflect on what I have and how much freedom it can bring me, how much less it makes me stress over tough financial situations on a daily basis.

My friend, hang in there. You have not lost it all. In fact, if you're patient and responsible, you're right about to find what it is you have and it's more than you think. Just give your mind time to adapt as it moves away from a dopamine filled moon chasing, ETH gambling mindset and towards a more grounded and grateful one. I hope it doesn't sound cheesy or pretentious. But losing half of my stack has been good for my wisdom, financial responsibility and mental health. Try not to stress about it all too much and just let it be. From the sounds of it you're still in this game and I don't want to lose any more EthFinanciers to liquidations and high risk plays.

I know it is painful now, but it will get better. You've just got to focus on the right things.

_{Forgive me for my liberal use of the word gambling. You know what I mean though. It's taking on risk with large sums of money which really shouldn't be at so much risk.}

#73: August 2, 2024

Listen Live | POAP Checkout

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ei1pba/comment/lg3g000/)

u/ReluctantToast777

Ethereum

$3152

u/alexiskef

0.0489

https://x.com/Evan_ss6/status/1816882268075372756

90,748 hodlers subscribed (+1)

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1egeu6r/comment/lg1dcv1/)

Ignore politics,

Distrust their economics,

Store your mnemonics.

Shitpost of the week: u/Imelia29

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eer8s9/daily_general_discussion_july_29_2024/lfgd4ti/)

There once was a coin called ethereum

With a fanclub in neigh-on delirium

They asked Ray to flippen

But he just kept on dippin'

Mayhaps life can't be judged by this criterium

alt. last line:

Some patience to temper your accelererium

...maaan, ethereum is a stupid word to rhyme with. Impress me, ethfinance!

u/Itur_ad_Astra is strengthening their FUD busting skills

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ecfslx/daily_general_discussion_july_26_2024/lf17lnb/)

When discussing crypto, and comparing ETH with BTC/alts online and offline, I can easily refute all points against ETH. Ethereum is so well thought out and designed, that it seems there are literally no weak points, and you can easily debate its superiority.

But I'm wondering about one point that I don't have the technical knowledge to easily counter. Many altcoiners say that ETH suffers from "spaghetti code", and a large technical debt that is going to be a big issue going forward, either by eventually causing a huge bug and collapse of the blockchain, or by just slowing down its further development and letting other, better written coins come on top.

So I'm asking anyone that's more into Ethereum's technicals/developement than I am. Is there any truth to this claim? My answer would usually be that Ethereum was mostly accused of slow development, which would indicate prioritizing quality over speed, but this isn't concrete proof that the code is actually good quality. How would you reply to someone that claims that Ethereum's code is bad code?

u/cryptrd285 thinks the ETF flows have been bullish so u/Caturday_Yet stopped by to see something big for themselves

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ecfslx/daily_general_discussion_july_26_2024/lf2bs7o/)

u/cryptrd285:

Bloomberg guy Eric B is stating that out of all the inflow into new ETFS, 2/3 is actually new flow, and 1/3 is people swapping from ETHE to low fee ones

This would be super bullish...

If @EricBalchunas is correct here, this would be outrageously bullish

New ETFs have taken in $978MM in 3 days.

At 2/3 new, that’s $652MM or $217.3MM a day

During slow summer

Big if, small sample, but even something modest like $30-60MM a day would be bullish

u/Caturday_Yet:

u/LogrisTheBard has a warning for all Compound users

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eer8s9/daily_general_discussion_july_29_2024/lfjd5u5/)

Regarding the recent Compound governance attack the real danger here isn't that they rugged the treasury. However much they stole there isn't enough liquidity to exit that amount. The real danger is they went from having outsized control of the governance to do something like this to defacto ownership of the governance system to do whatever else they want soon.

I'll remind everyone that Compound doesn't use isolated lending pools. Every depositor/borrowable asset is at risk against price losses of every collateral asset. So the real risk here is that they mint a token e.g. LogrisShitCoin, seed it against a tiny amount of liquidity to give it a price while owning 100% of it, vote to enable use of that token as collateral, borrow all the assets in Compound, and let the liquidations rack up bad debt behind them.

If you have assets in Compound this is your cue to switch to an isolated lending pool strategy. We used to have more of these but some like Rari and Euler have gone the way of the dodo. Euler v2 is just around the corner but given their history I'd probably give that a year before trying it. Otherwise I can recommend Silo, Gearbox, Ajna, or Llamalend.

u/HSuke brainstorms scam prevention techniques then like 2 peas in a pod u/Dreth shares a book chapter they wrote on avoiding scams

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eer8s9/daily_general_discussion_july_29_2024/lfigqox/)

u/HSuke:

It's really cool that I was able to traverse back one day at a time a whole year via Daily Doots without encountering a single broken link. Great job, u/Tricky_Troll and Substidoots!

Anyways, I was looking for a list of scams techniques that our community has encountered. Here's a short summary of the scams and how to avoid them, if even possible.

####Google Ad links

How it worked: User searched for polymarket and clicked on a google sponsored ad link (right above the actual link) directing to an identical page with a 1-character domain name difference. User then signed a permit Tx draining user of a specific token.

How to prevent:

Be extremely careful with Google ad links.
Also be careful with domain typo squatting. Entering "Umiswap" instead of "Uniswap" is all it takes to get drained.
Test with a small amount first, and don't do unlimited approvals/permits on the test transation

A wallet guard or advanced-security wallet like Rabby wallet can prevent some of these kinds of attacks.

####Bridge hack

How it worked: DeFI protocol LI.FI's L2 Bridge got hacked. Contract was drained. (User narrowly avoided hack by using good practices.)

How to prevent: Don't approve more than you need to use. Try to use official bridges when possible. Be careful with DeFi bridges.

####Persistent spear phishing attack + Homoglyph attack

How it worked: Attacker called and emailed multiple times about a known recent hack of specific account belonging to the user that got its info leaked (the leak part was true). They had the user's account due to the recent leak. The domain was indistinguishable from the official domain, but it used an identical-looking foreign character instead of the real English character (a homoglyph). User didn't fall for it, but attack was convincing due to its persistence and professionalism.

How to prevent: Remain skeptical about calls and emails. Always be wary of ayone who tries to rush you into making hasty decisions. Always check email and website domains, though in this case that wouldn't have helped since the domain was practically indistinguishable (homoglyph). In this case, don't click on the email link. Instead, retype the link in the address bar.

####Home break-in with armed attackers

How attacked: Crypto dev with 10k followers had a home break-in with armed attackers

How to prevent: Well, this is really hard to prevent if you already have your info public due to a previous mass data leak. Everyone has already had their data leaked multiple times. If you're rich, maybe get good security and have a throwaway wallet. Honestly, I don't really have a good way to prevent this. On the other hand, this attack is not specific to crypto.

####Address poisoning a test transaction

How it worked: User made test transaction (which is good practice) in preparation for a bigger transaction. Immediately got address-poisoned by an attacker monitoring whale addresses. User then used the poisoned address from the account's transaction history. (Story seems a bit fishy since the user should've been an expert at avoiding common attacks.)

How to prevent: Use an address book with whitelisted addresses. Be wary of address poisoning attacks. Don't copy addresses from the transaction history.

####Liquidity Pool was hacked

How it worked: Self-explanitory. Liquidity Pool was hacked. User's LP wallet was drained.

How to prevent: Be careful when joining LPs. Some of them have bugs or exploits. User was able to avoid heavy damage because he kept his LP wallet separated from his main wallets.

####Warpcast frames

How it worked: Blindly trusting a mint via a Warpcast frame

How to prevent: Don't immediately assume that people on Warpcast are trustworthy. Treat it like a slightly-safer Twitter.

####Supply-side attack

How it worked: 2 separate reports for this kind of hack. In one, a hacker pulled off a BGP hijack (compromises routing protocol) of a crypto platform's service provider. In another, hacker compromised a github account of a library the a wallet software used.

How to prevent: If you're the end user, there is no practical way to prevent this kind of attack. It doesn't matter if it's crypto or traditional finance, a supply-side attack can destroy you, and there's very little you can do about it. Stick with wallets and platforms that have good security practices to minimize the chances of this happening. Realistically, if some infrastructure's DNS or BGP gets hijacked, even crypto security experts can get screwed.

####Fake revoke scam

How it worked: This got reported multiple times, though I don't think anyone on the sub fell for it. Basically, after a large hack, scammers would link to fake revoke_dot_cash sites hoping to trick careless users who were rushing to revoke their approvals/permits.

How to prevent: Don't fall for schemes that try to rush you into doing something and making a careless mistake. Type in website addresses manually.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i1yd58id0lcbez3x2hiqp/1-2024-07-29-Complaint.pdf

u/Dreth:

In 2022, I started writing a book on crypto, that I intended to self publish to help complete beginners get a head start on the philosophy of crypto, how to get into it, how to self custody funds and how to avoid scams.

I never quite finished everything, I had a little over 30 thousand words, but I did ask for help for scam examples in this subreddit at the time.

Today I decided to publish the 'identifying and avoiding scams' section because the longer I wait to ever publish this, the more outdated it'll be. It's likely already outdated. It was still missing some examples I wanted to show, but I believe it's already valuable enough to at least post here.

Here it is in case anyone wants to take a look: https://dac.ac/blog/identifying_and_avoiding_crypto_scams

Feedback is appreciated too, just bear in mind that not even I have given it a full re-read in a couple years.

There's an acknowledgements section at the bottom giving credit to those who helped me out, but I want give a shout out to them here too:

u/alexiskef for many of the discord DM
u/busterrulezzz for his writing tips and his narration of the experience he had on a crypto startup that turned out to be a scam narrated on r/CryptoCurrency (don't worry I didn't copy it or anything, I know the post is deleted now)
The ethfinance mods for allowing me to ask for examples of scams publicly on the daily thread
u/pocketwailord, u/excellentpantschoice, u/datacruncha, u/actualbadger, u/sinnU2s, u/lawfultots, u/RedPillInjester, for all the examples they sent, all quite distinct from one another which was really helpful
u/nixorokish for offering me to collaborate on a different project on a scam-related diagram and for tagging me in a few other examples on the daily threads

u/domotheus shares Song A Day Mann sticking it to the man

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eer8s9/daily_general_discussion_july_29_2024/lfiil3p/)

Our boy Song A Day Mann is suing the SEC for the sake of all NFT projects lol

u/AElowsson discusses the proper way to present home staker yield

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1efl096/daily_general_discussion_july_30_2024/lfo5bbt/)

Tweet where I highlight how to present yield distributions for non-pooled stakers. Some webpages and researchers rely on things like the median across all validators over some minuscule time period, averaging these medians over time. This fails to capture the probabilistic outcome facing the solo staker. Half of the validators will never propose a block during the same day, yet half will still propose within a few months. Order statistics are instead relevant on a per-validator basis over longer time.

To check if it is raining, do not extend your hand and measure the median number of fingers impacted by raindrops every millisecond. The result will always be zero; yet it might still rain.

The figure shows how distributions vary with pool size after one year. This is a more appropriate way to communicate order statistics. The tiny vertical black line segment is the solo stakers that do not have a block proposal or sync-committee duty over a year, presented as the “all-time median” on sites such as Rated. The real median outcome facing solo stakers after one year is indicated by a black arrow, fairly close already to the expected yield.

The context of this discussion is the modeling assumptions in the post on maximum viable security (MVS).

The modeling and the same figure can also be found in my latest response to that post.

u/ro-_-b has been on the Ethereum journey for a long time and is comfortable being here for a lot longer

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1egeu6r/daily_general_discussion_july_31_2024/lfsczq8/)

Ethereum came a long way:

When I joined prediction markets and decentralized social media were concepts people pointed at when discussing potential use cases of the network

Today both concepts are implemented (polymarket, Farcaster) and show how it all makes sense. The teams that implemented them were not the ones which people initially thought would but that’s the beauty of decentralization

Both of these are early and have lots of growth ahead but we’re at a stage where we’re beyond imagining with live apps in production. We’ve came a long way so far

ETH is an asset I feel comfy holding for the next 20 years+

I can not say the same about any other crypto asset. The ones that are mostly VC hyped are the ones that get dumped at the end of the cycle so I would certainly not recommend to hold these for the long run if your objective is to take home profit

u/MerkleChainsaw asks about the realities of tokenization and u/pa7x1 explains how they think tokenization will work

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1egeu6r/daily_general_discussion_july_31_2024/lfsuo87/)

u/MerkleChainsaw:

How would Blackrock (or anyone else) actually implement tokenization of real world assets?

They'd need to maintain some centralized control even if KYC whitelisting wasn't required, just to reverse transactions of lost or stolen coins. North Korea wouldn't actually get to be part owner in Lockheed Martin because they stole some shares and "code is law". That's not too big a deal because RWAs will always require trust in the issuer anyway, and Blackrock is of course more trustworthy and regulated than crypto startups like Celsius were.

I don't think Blackrock would be comfortable using existing L2s for the token smart contract. They wouldn't control the governance and any breaking changes could be catastrophic with billions (or trillions?) of dollars worth of assets at stake representing claims to real world things. I know technically this governance argument could apply to Ethereum itself, but I think Ethereum governance will always be more reliable since validators with ETH at stake are the ultimate approvers of any changes. L2s will either be centralized or have changes decided by cash grab governance tokens. If Blackrock or an industry consortium designed their own specialized and controlled L2 then wouldn't we lose most of the benefits of the openness of DeFi?

At some point it's just easier to just build an API with specifications for transferring ownership between accounts when a trade has happened. They could even have an address / signed transaction scheme similar to blockchains so that any exchange could instant settle a trade, but that would still just be tradfi.

I've sold my ETH, but the possibility of RWAs coming to Ethereum gives me some FOMO because the opportunity could be absolutely massive. I'm trying to visualize how it would actually work in a way that accrues value to ETH.

u/pa7x1:

I suspect BlackRock, Nasdaq, etc... will run their own permissioned L2s. I.e. you cannot execute orders directly, you won't have the private keys and a wallet to create your orders directly. Your experience as a user might be exactly the same as it is today, through your broker app. These L2s will be the underlying infrastructure where the trades are executed.

What's the advantage for them? Running their trading on their systems already works and is likely cheaper in terms of infra, so why bother? The answer is composability. They will be all interconnected by Ethereum, acting as the infrastructure backbone for finance. Moving assets from one L2 to another is trivial, immediate, auditable, cryptographically secure and you know the assets are truly there. Finance works currently with D+1, D+2 settlement. During that 1 or 2 days, your assets are in the limbo. And that settlement is costly, in terms of resources and delays. Sprinkle these with a bit of zk magic, based rollups, pre-confirmations... and you will have global instant settlement.

For trivial stuff, like small trading, they give us the perception of immediate settlement. Your MSFT stock appears directly in your brokerage account when you click buy, but it's not really there yet. But for big money, you cannot really trust the money is there until it's settled. The financial world was on the brink of collapse during the 2008 crisis as nobody could trust anybody else's balance sheets.

Have a watch to this podcast if you haven't: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUMGYEKIiGw

u/SeaMonkey82 shares Erigon's ASCII art

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1egeu6r/daily_general_discussion_july_31_2024/lfvh0qk/)

Daily Holesky:

I reported something causing Nethermind to crash and it got fixed. In more exciting news, erigon has otter art now.

INFO[07-31|16:50:18.454]
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    .::-========*@@@..              -@#      +%@@@@%.     -@#               .-@@@+=======-
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       .:=++####*%@@%=--::::..      @@   %#     %*    :@*  -@+      ...::---+@@@#*#*##+=-:
  ..--==::..     :%@@@-   ..:::..   @@   +@*:.-#@@+-.-#@-  -@+   ..:::..  .+@@@#.     ..:-
                  .#@@@##-:.        @@    :+#@%=.:+@@#=.   -@+        .-=#@@@@+
             -=+++=--+%@@%+=.       @@       +%*=+#%-      -@+       :=#@@@%+--++++=:
         .=**=:.      .=*@@@@@#=:.  @@         :--.        -@+  .-+#@@@@%+:       .:=*+-.
        ::.              .=*@@@@@@%#@@+=-:..         ..::=+#@%#@@@@@@%+-.             ..-.
                            ..=*#@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@%%@@@@@@@@@@@@@@%#+-.
                                  .:-==++*#######%######**+==-:

#72: July 26, 2024

Listen Live | POAP Checkout

Special guest Ryan McPeck joins us from Metamask.

Upcoming Guests

August 2 - Amir & Jason from Puffer Finance

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1ecfslx/comment/lezmdef/)

Ethereum

$3247.62

0.0487

https://np.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/1e7mbip/for_the_same_amount_of_money_is_it_better_to_buy/le7g2rg/

90,668 hodlers subscribed (+2)

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e960uq/comment/lefsu3d/)

Ether ten year old,

Outperform the bitcoins sold,

A story still told.

Shitpost of the week: u/etherbie

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e6vo0l/daily_general_discussion_july_19_2024/le12jxq/)

So, during that little dip, I said to myself, Solana’s very likely going to outperform ETH because everyone’s retarded.

I went to hit the buy button, but my body started convulsing and I threw up in my mouth. I physically could not do it.

I bought more ETH instead.

u/physalisx has a reminder for RocketPool operators

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e6vo0l/daily_general_discussion_july_19_2024/ldwdagp/)

If you're a Rocketpool operator and haven't yet, please initialise your voting power as described here: https://medium.com/rocket-pool/rocket-pool-protocol-dao-governance-a3c3e92904e0

If you don't care about participating in governance, you should still initialise your voting power and then delegate it to someone from the delegates listed here: https://delegates.rocketpool.net/

You can always override your delegate's decision on a particular vote if you desire.

This setup just takes two minutes and ensures the on-chain voting system can fully launch soon (they're waiting for 50% initialised voting power).

u/Tricky_Troll needs some help brainstorming some flairs

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e7nt2y/daily_general_discussion_july_20_2024/le2sqzp/)

As per a suggestion from u/stablecoin a few weeks ago (yes I'm slow to get onto things), us mods would like to put together a default list of flairs for users to choose from. Stablecoin suggested that this may help in discussions by providing context into the perspective through which someone is probably coming from when we are having discussions. For example, if you see a permabull flair, then maybe their hopium should be taken with a grain of salt or with a long timeframe in mind. Or, if someone has the developer or tradfi flair, then they may have some extra credibility when discussing those topics.

So, anyway, please help us brainstorm a list and we will get them on the default flair options!

Starting off, this is me borrowing from what u/stablecoin put:

DeFi Power User
Home Staker
Value Extractor/Mercenary
Trader
SocialFi & NFTs Enthusiast
Here for the societal revolution

Please brainstorm away! Cheers!

u/pa7x1 is out there fighting the good fight

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e8ely9/daily_general_discussion_july_21_2024/le7jj6c/)

I have continued the "educational battle"/"fight the misinformation campaign" on /r/investing. It's really amazing how poorly Bitcoiners understand their own investment.

Here I explain that Bitcoin is, in fact, not unstoppable. On the contrary, it will stop itself in the year 2038 due to a time overflow bug. The fix to this requires a hard fork. The issue is that they have pinned themselves into a corner by making hard forks taboo. A hard fork is also what you need to change the issuance schedule of Bitcoin, if you fix this bug it would be implicit recognition that 21M is not a feature of Bitcoin code, but of social consensus and it can be changed through social consensus.

When you have been in this space long enough you understand that people that approached Bitcoin over a decade ago through an ideological lens, are not Bitcoiners anymore. Those that approached this space with the intent of removing the monopoly of money from the State and giving back the rights that governments had been eroding for decades from their citizens, have left and moved on to Ethereum. And likely this will remain the case for as long as Ethereum keeps fighting for those principles through math.

Ethereum's development resembles much more the discovery process of science, Ethereum is not the way it is because of capricious choices. It's the way it is because the constraints you have to work with are so binding that it cannot be in many other ways if you want to maintain security, decentralization, credible neutrality, censorship resistance, scale to the serve the world needs, inherit those security properties on the upper layers of the financial world, etc...

These properties alone have lead us to PoS, EIP-1559 burn mechanism, the roll-up centric roadmap. These choices are a result of these constraints, and there really is very little leeway around it, as far as we know.

In much the same way Einstein's theory of relativity is not the way it is because scientists decided those were the equations. It's the simplest solution that respects relativity, respects the equivalence principle, reproduces Newton's gravity in the low energy/low speed regimes, reproduces the gravitational curvature of light, the precession of perihelion of Mercury. Those requirements are binding enough to give you Einstein's field equations.

There are some higher order details that can be tuned in both General Relativity and Ethereum, but the core principles become rather constrained to the point there is a single theory that meets all those in the case of General Relativity. It's unclear to me yet if the case is as constraining for Ethereum, but we are progressively getting there as we understand better this problem space.

u/HSuke teases their big post about blockchain resilience

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e8ely9/daily_general_discussion_july_21_2024/le96j60/)

I made a post about blockchain resilience to bugs in a separate thread between PoW and PoS:

https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e8a62w/pow_vs_pos_and_safety_vs_resilience_why_ethereum/

It's quite long, so here are just the Preface and Summary sections. Use the link above if you want to read the rest of it.

##Preface

I originally wrote this piece after Ethereum lost finality back in May 2023 twice when both the Prysm and Teku minority clients encountered bugs. Around then, Vitalik also dicussed the possibility and concerns for staking bailouts in his "Don't overload Ethereum's consensus" article if a catatrophic bug were to happen.

I'm updating and reposting this in light of 2 recent events:

Vitalik's Keynote speech at EthCC 7 where he warns that Ethereum protocol design needs to be careful of other vulnerabilities besides just the typical 33/50/67% consensus-level attacks. It's a great, humble lecture from Vitalik, and I highly recommend watching it if you haven't already done so.
Geth client developer Marius van der Wijden making it very clear that he wasn't ready for including EOF in the Pectra update

This is a reminder that there is a reason Ethereum updates are slow and methodical and use multiple testnets.

It only takes one unlucky bug to cause catastrophic damage to the blockchain and cause a mass-slashing event where the majority of stakers will lose their Ether. We got lucky back in 2023 because the bugs were in minority clients and it only halted finality. A bug affecting the majority of clients might not happen now or even in the next decade, but there may be one day where another catastrophic event as damaging as the 2016 DAO hack causes the chain to split again.

##Summary

Historically, successful PoW attacks have been numerous, but successful PoS attacks are virtually non-existent.

History has proven that PoS consensus is a more secure alternative to PoW consensus against Sybil attacks like the 51% attack. However, this is at the cost of PoS being less resilient than PoW for disaster recovery. This is because PoW by design allows for miners to re-attack/reorg the blockchain to revert mistakes.

While client bugs are exceptionally rare, they do occur, and most PoS blockchains have no on-chain method to revert past finality. It's important to avoid reorgs in the first place because any transations that finalize off-chain through DEXs, bridges, and CEXs are often irreversible even after the blockchain is reverted.

Security is the ability to protect against malicious attackers
Resilience is the ability to restore the chain after an attack or catastrophic bug

Similar to the Blockchain Trilemma where there are trade offs between Security, Decentralization, and Scalability--Resilience is also a tradeoff of Security.

Even the 2 biggest blockchains, Bitcoin and Ethereum (when it was still using PoW), have encountered 51% attacks. Bitcoin (in 2010 and 2013) and PoW Ethereum (in 2016 and 2016) had both been successfully 51% attacked twice each in order to fix catastrophic bugs and issues. It would be extremely difficult if not impossible to accomplish this in reasonable time under PoS Ethereum and most other decentralized PoS blockchains today.

Past finality, it usually requires a DAO-hack like chain split or bailout to undo a catastrophe: i.e. through Layer 0 community consensus and off-chain governance.

u/betterluckythengood has a warning for ETHE holders and u/Brent_the_Adventurer educates us on how ETHE works

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e960uq/daily_general_discussion_july_22_2024/ledqmoy/)

u/betterluckythengood:

ETHE rotating FYI

The NAV price of an ETF corrects at the end of the day, but can deviate a bit during trading hours because of supply and demand forces.

Nobody likes the high ETHE fees, but it might be worth waiting a couple weeks before switching to a different ETH ETF as the ETHE sell pressure early on may push it below NAV during the day. If you sell ETHE and immediately buy another ETH ETF, you may end up with slightly less ETH value than you had before.

This was evidenced during the first week or so for GBTC when the BTC ETFs started trading. Immense sell pressure during the day took GBTC below NAV and strong buy pressure for the popular BTC ETFs may even have pushed them slightly above NAV during trading hours. Those that quickly sold GBTC and immediately rebought another BTC ETF early on often lost a bit of their value.

Best of luck, may the ETH ETFs help take us to the promised land.

https://x.com/drakefjustin/status/1815316383233925498

u/Brent_the_Adventurer:

Here's my understanding of how it works. Let's say you have 1000 shares of ETHE purchases at $20 each, and these shares represent 10 ETH for easy math.

Since settlement for shares is T+1 and the "Record Date" is today the 18th at 4:00 PM, any shares purchased before today will be included in the spin off to the mini ETF. Now if you fall in that camp this is what will happen.

You still own 1000 shares of ETHE but they only represent 9 ETH now, so your cost basis on those ETHE shares is now $18/share. You will also own (on a later date to be determined, the "Distribution Date") 1000 shares of mini-ETH representing 1 ETH, or a $2/share cost basis.

If you sell your ETHE shares today or beyond, you will still receive your 1000 shares of mini-ETH because of the T+1 settlement. This also means that if you buy ETHE today, you will not receive any mini-ETH shares.

So, the 10% "discount" is not really a discount and is pricing in the new NAV, meaning it's basically at fair value.

u/Dangerous_Coast just had a massive wake up call

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e960uq/daily_general_discussion_july_22_2024/leerbxm/)

I'm a longtime follower who primarily lurks the daily since finding Ethereum in 2017. I want to share my story about my massive wake-up call on the importance of account security and backups after becoming complacent due to my time spent in the space. You never think it could happen to you...

For 3 weeks, I believed I lost access to all my crypto savings and cold wallet / validator withdrawal address. I travel extended periods for work and have some large life expenses right now, so I brought my Ledger with me. Not the first time I've travelled with it, but it is the first time I had a bag stolen. I was frustrated but knew I had my seed phrase stored and could recover when I returned home.

I've recently bought my first house and moved in with my partner. In the confusion of moving 2 apartments into one, my recovery sheet and other old 2017 financial records were missing. I was feeling pretty despondent knowing that my carelessness and non-urgency about prepping for disaster recovery were starting to bite me in the ass. I fully believed that I lost access to my cold savings and minipools.

It's not like I couldn't afford my mortgage, but all hope I had for early financial independence were gone. That planned 2 year maternity leave, funded by ETH, for my pregnant partner wasn't financially feasible anymore.

I did eventually find my ratty old college notebook with my Ledger seed phrase scrawled in the margins from 2017 when I originally set it up. The euphoria and relief on that day was enormous. I got lucky, I restored everything and have it all secured now. But I feel the need to share my near miss with others so that no one has to feel that rollercoaster of emotion going forward. I made plenty of mistakes to put myself in this situation.

My advice learnt from this; Setup an annual recovery method testing reminder. If you have a trusted partner, teach them about how to access things in the event you pass away. Keep your position records up to date, it also makes me less inclined to toss ETH into various flavours of the month that inevitably crash and burn. Pull the trigger on that Eversteel and set it up properly.

I made my mistakes but got lucky. Dont let complacency and one moment of misfortune ruin multiple years of making the right decision to invest and hold Ether.

u/phigo50 celebrates 10 years since the ETH ICO

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e960uq/daily_general_discussion_july_22_2024/lecutu3/)

ETH is 10 years old today!

The ether ICO started July 22, 2014. Back then ETH was sold on Bitcoin at a rate of 2,000 ETH per 1 BTC—totally permissionless, no VCs, no vesting.

Today 1 BTC buys less than 20 ETH. Few assets have outperformed BTC over 10 years; even fewer have outperformed by 100x.

ETH is blockspace currency. 4.3M ETH have been burned to pay for gas since EIP-1559. Many more millions of ETH will be burned for blobs.

Through staking ETH provides $100B of economic security for Ethereum, 10x more than Bitcoin. ETH is also pristine collateral for defi and restaking, unlocking economic bandwidth in size for the internet of value.

Tomorrow ETH spot ETFs start trading in the US. ETH is now widely recognised as a digital commodity. The institutional journey is starting.

And for those who know what the emojis mean, ETH is 🦇🔊 :)

u/decibels42 thinks that the clock is now ticking

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e9zgce/daily_general_discussion_july_23_2024/lel5o9p/)

The clock started today my friends.

The trifecta will burn from today forward of: (1) 1559/merge tokenomics, (2) growth of L2 usage/competition and the ETH ecosystem and dapp creation (enabled by cheaper transaction fees and a growing developer base), and now (3) tradfi and retirement account access (ETFs).

Cry all you'd like about the ratio bleed until now. I remember 2019 well. We bled until the eventual lows in the fall even through the optimism and fake breakout of BTC and crypto in the first half of the year. If you were there, you know how things went. If you weren't, open the charts.

I shook my head often over this year as I see ratio complainers or people impatient for a golden bull. There's never been a crypto bull run in history short of a 3+ year bear market. I'm not saying it can't happen from here forward, but until it happens, we should exercise caution with our impatience.

I'm one of the people who thought we'd ratio gain throughout this year. I was wrong. But, zooming out, and overall, the ratio has held stronger and better than anyone could have imagined in 2018-20. Now the games begin as we have the banks and tradfi financially incentivized to explain the benefits of ETH, as the ecosystem itself continues to improve itself and expand/grow. Make no mistake, this will still take some time to percolate. Enjoy the ride.

Happy ETF launch day. Our first future bull with all the pieces align. It only took 7 Lubins and I still pray nightly for Vitalik to not turn off the master node.

u/Revanchist1 poses an important bigger picture question

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e9zgce/daily_general_discussion_july_23_2024/lejxx4k/)

Here's something that's been bothering me for years. As Ethereum continues to gain adoption, I cannot see a future where Ethereum is left to be a neutral settlement layer without having it's fair share of battles.

How will large financial institutions excercise control over Ethereum? As centralized stablecoins increase in size and gain adoption, and large TradFi institutions accumulate and stake ETH, the economic and social power will shift towards them and away from retail.

How does the community ensure development of Ethereum doesn't get co-opted by these institutions?

Centralized Stablecoin liquidity and support is a huge social attack vector. While I doubt the ETH devs and researchers will care about that, the social pressure from the community may become to loud to ignore if coordinated propaganda is used.

Large TradFi institutions may also begin funding client teams or even create new clients themselves. I've already seen questions of conflict of interests raised proposed ERCs and upgrade proposals. I can only imagine what would happen as larger financial players enter the scene.

Creating troll armies are easier than ever and can quickly flood social forums with coordinated messaging. These social attacks would be the most impactful as they would cause the most confusion in discussions. The discord from bad faith actors could put a stranglehold on development and research.

Anyway, that's my half baked doom and gloom. Haven't been posting here since reddit got rid of the 3rd party mobile apps but I'm trying to get used to the Reddit app now.

u/superphiz shares the ETH ETF POAP with proceeds going to a great cause!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e9zgce/daily_general_discussion_july_23_2024/leladtc/)

I'm DELIGHTED to share this Ethereum Spot ETF POAP with everyone. Not just because of the collectible, but because of all of the years it took for us to get to this place. Congratulations frens! POAP mint requires a $3 donation to AestusRelay

https://checkout.poap.xyz/176266

Congratulations everyone :)

u/Tricky_Troll bumps an important call to action

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1eat246/daily_general_discussion_july_24_2024/leo361j/)

Don't mind me, just bumping u/stablecoin's post from the end of yesterday's daily.

https://juicebox.money/@defend-roman-storm

stop larping about freedom and make it happen. donate to Roman Storm to keep him out of jail and ensure the freedoms of censorship resistance transactions.

LifelongHODL then asked:

Who is Roman Storm?

Tricky:

A Tornado Cash developer.

So basically a man who is being prosecuted for spreading what has previously been defined by the US supreme court as free speech. Should an arms manufacturer go to prison for a mass shooting? No, that would be ridiculous. So why should he go to prison for creating a piece of open source software which allows me to stop people connecting my public facing wallet to my cold storage just because North Korea also uses the same tool? Surprise surprise, North Korea also uses the internet. But I don't see the US government charging web 2 companies or Tim Berners Lee for that.

This is a huge double standard and we will be living in a very dark future indeed if the US government wins its case against the Tornado Cash developers.

Edit: Also, u/stablecoin is there an update or something? I see a recent uptick in donations.

Edit 2: Update: https://x.com/FreeAlexeyRoman/status/1815466170948219153

They're running low on funds for the upcoming trial. Their fees are $500K/month 🤯 reason being it's a novel case and they really need as robust of a defence as possible.

#71: July 12, 2024

Livestream Recording | POAP

Upcoming Guests

July 26 - Mcoso.eth from Metamask
August 2 - Amir & Jason from Puffer Finance

The morning roundup

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e199nr/comment/lcsil9p/)

u/LowElectrical9680

Ethereim

$3085.73

u/HBAR_10_DOLLARS

0.054

u/bagogel12

Day 666 since the merge.

u/Atyzzze

290tps

Weekly Haiku: u/Jey_s_TeArS

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1dvpzvb/comment/lbt3d1m/)

Markets wind the clock,

Use cases filling the block,

An EthCC talk.

Choda time!

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1e0gtdv/comment/lcoar8h/)

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ETH TAKE MY ENERGY ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Shitpost of the week: Double Decker

[View on Reddit →](https://reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/1dwhu31/daily_general_discussion_july_6_2024/lbvk2m9/)

u/NeedlerOP:

Life cycle of an ETH holder:

Suffer for 2 years of bear market thinking you're an idiot (you are, should've sold some)
Euphoria for 1 year thinking you are literally the wolf of wall street (you're not)
Cope for a 1 year in the early stages of the bear 'but actually it's consolidation' (it's not)
Return to 1)

Source : my poor decisions

u/Dreth:

the real cycle is:

1 week of damn bro the tech is so good, inject that green papery stuff with the faces of defunct important humans and big numbers into my veins
7 weeks of im so fucking bored
3 weeks of fuck this market party's over bros pack up

rinse and repeat