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затормози́ть missing ⑧? #44

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bzaar opened this issue Feb 8, 2023 · 7 comments
Open

затормози́ть missing ⑧? #44

bzaar opened this issue Feb 8, 2023 · 7 comments

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@bzaar
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bzaar commented Feb 8, 2023

затормози́ть св 4b ◑I(-а́-)

This gives заторможён, заторможена́, заторможено́, заторможены́, all of which sound wrong to me. They should be затормо́жен, затормо́жена, затормо́жено, затормо́жены. I realise that my idiolect may not be the literary norm, that's why I'm putting this up for discussion.

@bzaar
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bzaar commented Feb 8, 2023

The Russian Wiktionary follows Zaliznjak and gives заторможённый.

@shenyileirob
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shenyileirob commented Feb 8, 2023

Ozhegov (2006) gives both options (=[⑧]), with the ⑧ variant labelled as (спец.):

Ozhegov2006

Ushakov (1935) records only the non-⑧ form:

Ushakov1935

The English Wiktionary gives both options (=[⑧]) without further notes.

@bzaar
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bzaar commented Feb 9, 2023

Or take this line, for example, from the song «Александра» of the Oscar-bearing film «Москва слезам не верит», 1979:

...снега́ми запоро́шена, листво́ю заворо́жена...

Neither запоро́шена or заворо́жена are valid literary word forms according to Zaliznjak, 2010 (or 1977):

  • запороши́ть св 4b ◑I(-а́-)
  • заворожи́ть св 4b ◑I(-а́-)

As you probably know, all Soviet scripts and lyrics were subject to rigirous censorship and proofreading. If this line survived the procedure, then these ⑧-forms must have been deemed acceptable in 1979.

Just like with заторможена́, I can hardly imagine someone saying запорошена́. Probably because I haven't heard this word anywhere outside this song.

However, заворожён, заворожена́ sound OK to me, as well as заворо́жен, заворо́жена.

Here is a nice explanation why this variation occurred. If it's anything to go by, then we are going to see more words needing the [⑧], or maybe even a solid ⑧, in the future. I'll leave this issue open and see if I can find more words like this.

@bzaar
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bzaar commented Feb 9, 2023

Then there there is the practical question of what shall we do with such words? Do we say that the absense of an ⑧ is an error? What do we then consider an error? A deviation from the literary norm? The Russian literary norm is pretty much defined by Zaliznjak and one other dictionary, Reznichenko, which - lo and behold! - lists заворо́женный labelled as «неправ.»!

image

http://slovana.ru/slovari/reznichenko/orfoepicheskij-slovar-reznichenko_0289.htm

So, one of the most popular Russian songs is 'incorrect'. Hmm.

@bzaar
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bzaar commented Feb 9, 2023

Reznichenko is a bit more lenient towards запоро́шена:

image

@bzaar
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bzaar commented Feb 10, 2023

Zaliznjak Reznichenko Russian Wiktionary Google
пристыди́ть
св 4b ◑II
пристыжённый, неправ. присты́женный пристыжённый, присты́женный as separate entry (adjective)
нарасти́ть
св 4b ◑I
наращённый, неправ. нарощенный наращённый, нарощенный as separate entry (passive past participle) наращенные (237К) нарощенные (408К)
просверли́ть
св 4b ◑I
просверлённый, nothing about просве́рленный, but also mentions неправ. просве́рлит просве́рленный просверлённый
заворожи́ть
св 4b ◑I(-а́-)
заворожённый, неправ. заворо́женный заворожённый only
запороши́ть
св 4b ◑I(-а́-)
запорошённый и запоро́шенный запорошённый only (in запорошить and its own entry)
озолоти́ть
св 4b
озолочённый only
подключи́ть
св 4b ◑II
срасти́ть
св 4b ◑I

@bzaar
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bzaar commented Feb 16, 2023

Google.Translate.-.Google.Chrome.2023-02-16.17-07-05.mp4

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