Surface tagging - difference between "ground" and "unpaved" is unclear

[matkoniecz]

Users reported being confused by what is the difference between "ground" and "unpaved".

I admit that it also was not really clear to me.

I have no good idea how to fix it.

People in general are often confused by surface quest, some were unsure for example about difference between concrete asphalt and paving_stones

Multiple independently requested access to more thorough info about surface tagging.

It is not helping that OSM Wiki also has quite poor documentation (say, what is actually relation between surface=dirt and surface=earth? OSM Wiki still is not making clear that it is a de facto duplicate)

[smichel17]

#1913 seems like it would help

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On October 24, 2021 8:14:23 AM UTC, Mateusz Konieczny ***@***.***> wrote: Users reported being confused by what is the difference between "ground" and "unpaved". I admit that it also was not really clear to me. I have no good idea how to fix it. People in general are often confused by surface quest, some were unsure for example about difference between `concrete` `asphalt` and `paving_stones` Multiple independently requested access to more thorough info about surface tagging. It is not helping that OSM Wiki also has quite poor documentation (say, what is actually relation between `surface=dirt` and `surface=earth`? OSM Wiki still is not making clear that it is a de facto duplicate) 

-- To respect your time, I try to write short, functional emails.

[westnordost]

I admit that it also was not really clear to me.

Was, or is?

Ground is a natural ground surface. E.g. a trail.

Unpaved is a man-made surface that is not sealed. (Not sure if it is Germanenglish to say that. In German, "sealed" surfaces are surfaces like asphalt, concrete, paving stones etc.)

[matkoniecz]

I admit that it also was not really clear to me.

Was, or is?

Only after going through OSM Wiki and discussing it in person I understood that ground is intended to be covering mix of various natural surfaces such as dirt/rocks/roots/leaves. And still I am not entirely sure is there benefit in using it over unpaved

[mnalis]

@matkoniecz well, ground is one on more popular surfaces I use when mapping outdoors out-of-city. Wilderness surface is often intermixed in small intervals here, and I mostly do not care enough to micromap to such levels (eg. "5m dirt, then 1m grass, then 3m dirt, then 1m mud, then 3m grass...")

On the other hand, I rarely use unpaved - while I understood wiki and other people will use it even for ground, I personally would use it only if it is not ground, and I can't be bothered to split compacted / gravel -- situtation which happens very rarely (because, as a cyclist mostly on trekking bike, I care very much for difference between compacted and gravel).

But I guess that people with sport cars might find unpaved value useful as they don't care about details of it ("meh, it's not asphalt nor concrete, but some worthress unpaved road which I'd never use, so I don't care if it is gravel or dirt or mud...")

[matkoniecz]

Unpaved is a man-made surface that is not sealed.

I am pretty sure that it is not how this tag is used and I am unaware about places where it is described in this way. Maybe German has separate words for natural-unpaved and man-made-unpaved?

[matkoniecz]

As for the difference between concrete and asphalt, I do not get it why they get confused?

I also was surprised.

They simply never though about classifying road surfaces, and were never considering it. In the same way as before related StreetComplete quest I never noticed vibrating buttons under traffic lights ( https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:traffic_signals:vibration )

[westnordost]

When I was a child, there was a rumor that this hidden button would grant us green light quicker, so we pressed it all the time :-)